Dynamics Corner
About Dynamics Corner Podcast "Unraveling the World of Microsoft Dynamics 365 and Beyond" Welcome to the Dynamics Corner Podcast, where we explore the fascinating world of Microsoft Dynamics 365 Business Central and related technologies. Co-hosted by industry veterans Kris Ruyeras and Brad Prendergast, this engaging podcast keeps you updated on the latest trends, innovations, and best practices in the Microsoft Dynamics 365 ecosystem. We dive deep into various topics in each episode, including Microsoft Dynamics 365 Business Central, Power Platform, Azure, and more. Our conversations aim to provide valuable insights, practical tips, and expert advice to help users of businesses of all sizes unlock their full potential through the power of technology. The podcast features in-depth discussions, interviews with thought leaders, real-world case studies, and helpful tips and tricks, providing a unique blend of perspectives and experiences. Join us on this exciting journey as we uncover the secrets to digital transformation, operational efficiency, and seamless system integration with Microsoft Dynamics 365 and beyond. Whether you're a business owner, IT professional, consultant, or just curious about the Microsoft Dynamics 365 world, the Dynamics Corner Podcast is the perfect platform to stay informed and inspired.
Dynamics Corner
Episode 419: 🧩 Revolutionizing Work through User Experience with Business Central 🧩
In this episode of Dynamics Corner, Kris and Brad are joined by Teddy Herryanto. Listen to this insightful conversation exploring the intersection of work-life balance, global Business Central implementations, and the importance of user experience in ERP software. They discuss the critical role of intuitive user experiences in ERP systems like Business Central, emphasizing personalization, efficiency, and consistency to drive user adoption. The conversation also covers the hurdles of transitioning from legacy systems, the importance of effective communication, and the value of user feedback through user acceptance testing (UAT). This episode is packed with practical insights and forward-thinking ideas and underscores the power of diverse perspectives, knowledge sharing, and education in shaping the future of work and technology.
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Welcome everyone to another episode of Dynamics Corner. How do you implement Business Central? Besides English? I'm your co-host.
Speaker 2:Chris, and this is Brad. This episode was recorded on April 16th 2025. Chris, Chris, Chris, day after tax day here in the United States. I hope you filed your taxes Last minute, I hope you filed your taxes? How do you implement Business Central in a different language and what considerations do you make for the user experience? Those are good questions and with us today we had the opportunity to talk about that with Terry Haryanto. Good morning, how are you doing? Hello, good morning, hi everybody.
Speaker 3:Hello.
Speaker 2:I always feel odd saying good morning.
Speaker 1:Good day, how about?
Speaker 2:good day. When it's evening.
Speaker 3:Greetings, greetings.
Speaker 2:Greetings. Everyone who listens to this must hate it when we always say, like you're coming to us from the future, but I'm always impressed. I understand time differences. But, our time difference is so large.
Speaker 3:It's like the other side of the world, right it literally is the other side of the world, right?
Speaker 2:it literally is the other side, it is it's when I I wish that we would just go to one time zone.
Speaker 3:I wish period or maybe I wish that there is no daylight saving. Okay, I will start with that.
Speaker 2:I would be happy with that. The daylight savings time is a whole other challenge, and in 2025, I don't understand the purpose of it and deleted. Let's solve that first. Then we can get on to one time zone, because if it's 6 in the morning, 0600, no matter where you live, you just adapt Exactly. So 0600's breakfast, 0600's bedtime, 0600, no matter where you live, you just adapt. So 0600's breakfast, 0600's bedtime, 0600's lunch, depends on where you live. And then we don't have to question are you available February 25th at 0600.
Speaker 3:I think when we scheduled this call, I thought it was going to be 9th, and then Daylight Saving hits and then, oh, it's 8.
Speaker 1:So yeah, yes, yes, you're required to do math, and just so much work.
Speaker 2:Well, you're required to do more math, because some places do not follow Daylight Savings time. Places do not follow daylight savings time. So when I do scheduling, when we're around this time of year, when we're talking about months in the future past daylight savings time, I have to double check to see if it's five hours ahead of me or four hours ahead of me, because not all regions honor daylight savings time, which is a whole other reason why we need to get rid of it, exactly, in my opinion.
Speaker 3:So that's where we are.
Speaker 2:I don't think we can. Well, we'll save that for another day. I'm sure I'll be long gone before they solve that battle. I think the world has many more issues besides that.
Speaker 1:We should have longer weekends, brian, I think that's you know certain places in the world they have longer weekends, do?
Speaker 2:they, we need to have longer weekends. Yeah Well, I think, the four-day work week would be wonderful.
Speaker 1:Four-day work week.
Speaker 2:They found people are more productive.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, it's proven.
Speaker 2:When you have the ability to rest your mind. It's not necessarily saying you're not working, you're going to be lazy, but from knowledge, work point of view, and I'm sure even physical labor, you get to rest. And I also noticed when I used to do a lot of hiking, a lot of my creativity would come to me or problems would be solved when I'm hiking the mountain. Right, because I wasn't thinking about work, I wasn't staring at it, I was hiking a mountain. So, chris, I like that too. Let's start a petition for a four-hour week.
Speaker 3:Yes, I'll send it for you. Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you for taking the time to speak with us this morning, an hour earlier than we had planned. We appreciate you taking your time. Before we get into the conversation, would you mind telling a little bit about yourself?
Speaker 3:Oh, sure, sure. Well, thank you for having me. So my name is Teddy Haryanto. I'm working in New Zealand right now working for TITA as a lead consultant. So I've been working with well, nav or VC since 2006,. So it's almost 20 years. I've been well. I started as a technical consultant and then I move around right so I've become a functional and become an end user. So I do have a background on what around places I've also implemented across the country, such as Indonesia, japan, australia and New Zealand as well. I'm passionate about teaching and mentoring. I love learning, I love teaching. I'm passionate about teaching and mentoring, I love learning, I love teaching and I also love the user experience UX side of VC. That's what I'm passionate about basically delivering an ERP solution that people can enjoy. So that's pretty much it. Oh, I also have a blog called DeadNavGuy where I blog and I share my knowledge. So yeah, that's pretty much about me. I guess that's great New.
Speaker 2:Zealand. How did you end up in New Zealand?
Speaker 3:It's a long story, but to make it short, so I was in Japan, right, working in Japan, and then I was talking with my wife and we, well, japan is a good place, right, if you want to visit, if you want to work. However, we don't feel that it's a good place to settle because it's a fast pace. You know, everybody's busy, everybody's just working, working. So we kind of want to settle down, have a more balanced work-life balance. I don't know if there's a balance.
Speaker 1:You don't have the four days, right?
Speaker 3:No, yeah, but praise God that I managed to find a company that actually kind of like respect that. So it was okay for me to, you know, let my weekends be weekends, you see. So I didn't need to work late hours, I didn't need to work on weekends, but even then there's a lot of pressures, right. So we talked about it and then we decided that maybe it's better to find another place where we can have a better work-life balance and, you know, especially when we want to start a family and so on and so on. So, um, because my wife um grew up in new zealand, we just thought like maybe new zealand is a good place to live. So and here we are no, it's interesting.
Speaker 2:At least you have it, that work-life balance or what you could call that work-life balance. I think that's defined differently by many different people.
Speaker 2:And I've seen some say that there isn't a work-life balance or you can't define the work-life balance, it just has to become in your habit. But it is important. I realized it more as I got older and also from they understand the importance of it, because when I was younger I was eager to work, work, work, work and do all of this. But then, as personally, as I got older, I realized the importance of time and then also, just as we started talking about before, the importance of taking a break, because that break is important and working 16 hours doesn't mean you're more productive than someone who's working eight hours or even someone who's working four hours. It's what you can accomplish in the amount of time that you're working, versus just working at all that time. And then I know we all know when we're sleepy, our thought process is sometimes a little askew.
Speaker 1:There is a lot of variables in that, though, too, because that's a generational thing, you know. They just work, work, work. And then it could be a cultural thing too, where you work, work, work, and then, as you get older, you're like, yeah, it wasn't that as important, you know, like, yeah, you're hustling right. When you're early in your career, you want to maybe not prove to yourself, but prove others that you can. Hey, I can work as hard as anybody. And then you realize, you know what, I was much more productive if I just took the time for myself and, at the same time, just have different focuses as well. So that changes too. I know there's a lot of teachings or sessions out there about that work-life balance, but we also have to consider about the cultural background too, because I realized that growing up that you know, in my culture, you just have to work as hard as anybody. And then, as I get older, when I have kids, I'm like'm like, yeah, I'd rather spend my time over there, right?
Speaker 2:so yeah, exactly exactly, yeah, no, it is important to balance that. So how long have you been in new zealand?
Speaker 3:um, so maybe about seven. Now, seven years around that, yeah, six or seven take it a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, was it all that you had thought it would be?
Speaker 3:um, slightly different. Here and there I I'm enjoying it. Um, like, for example, like in terms of work, right you, you kind of have a feeling like, oh, in new zealand I can dress more, which is true, but it also means, because you work let's say, eight to five you gotta need to make sure that you finish your work on time so you're more productive.
Speaker 3:That means you work more in a short period of time yes, so you're not exactly like relaxing over, so you actually do work more because you're more efficient and the, you know, decision making is quite fast, while if you work longer hours, people tend to stretch it. You know, like oh, let's wait until tomorrow, like later, and so on and so on. So I think there's a little bit of different in terms of productivity.
Speaker 2:It is, it's the output.
Speaker 3:The output is the important thing.
Speaker 2:That's what people need to measure. That's what we were talking. It's how do you measure someone's productivity? You don't measure it by the amount of time it took them. I mean, granted, the amount of time it took them has to be relative to the task, but it's what they produce in the time that they work on it. It's almost like that toothpaste, the tooth, the toothpaste. You know the toothpaste. You can work with toothpaste. It's a big toothpaste. You squeeze it comes out, you squeeze it comes out, you squeeze, comes out. And then, when it gets to that very end of it, it's almost like that very end that you're trying to push out and you're pushing in it lasts longer than like the first 90% of the tube.
Speaker 2:So it's just a matter of what you can do with what you have.
Speaker 1:And you know it's interesting. On that too, brad, in the toothpaste. You don't need a whole lot when you squeeze that toothpaste I don't know if you're aware of that you just need a small amount and that's good enough. That's a misconception when you watch an advertisement of like they have this big old piece of toothpaste on top of the toothbrush. That's too much. They said it's supposed to be like a quarter of that. That's all you need.
Speaker 3:It's not even commercial because it has those you know. They want you to consume it, right, they want you to use it.
Speaker 1:You don't need that to go back to moving to new zealand did. Did you get an opportunity to take a look at the, the scenery where they filmed? Uh, lord of the rings I did.
Speaker 3:I did so I went to like hobby turns and stuff like that, so that was awesome. I think that's one of the coolest thing about new zealand is the this, the scenery.
Speaker 1:It's just gorgeous yeah, you're living in the lord of the rings, so you know, I know it's definitely a time check.
Speaker 2:And how about the animals?
Speaker 3:um, the good thing is there's no dangerous animal in here.
Speaker 2:There's no snakes or anything, so I can go hiking and not be worried about anything like bears and stuff maybe new zealand's the next, maybe new zealand's next on my list, because I can't even walk out the door without seeing a snake, so forget that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's crazy so there's no worry about like spiders. Well, there's spider, but it's not dangerous, like it's not like poisonous or anything. Um, so, yeah, it's really safe country, um, it's it's nice to go venture and out, you don't. You don't feel like someone's gonna kill you or anything like animals and stuff I mean in terms of like animals are in the hiking. So, uh, it's really nice no, that's good.
Speaker 2:That's that's good, but it's not for everybody like.
Speaker 3:so if you, if you enjoy, like nature, new Zealand is really the best place. But if you don't I love nature. Well, there's not many things to do in here. You don't go shopping? Well, there is some shopping mall, but you don't.
Speaker 2:You probably get bored pretty soon, and what's the weather like?
Speaker 3:Is it?
Speaker 2:pretty temperate year-round.
Speaker 3:It's quite nice. The weather is changing all the time. Sometimes it's suddenly raining, Sometimes it's a bit windy, and sometimes it's sunny. Right now there's a cyclone going on outside, so it's very windy and rainy, but year-round it's rather temperate.
Speaker 2:You don't have extreme heat or extreme cold, no, it's not that extreme.
Speaker 3:I think I didn't use all my winter clothes fully. So it's just wow, just a nice checker, it's fine.
Speaker 2:All these places I have to check out, including the places in the United States. Well, one of the things that you had mentioned is you're sensitive to user experience and making sure that somebody has a good experience with ERP. In your opinion, what defines a nice user experience?
Speaker 3:Well, it's different from user to users, right? I think if you look at the user perspective, what they want to do is just to do their work. I would say to finish their work faster so they can go home, for example, if they're allowed to. So not having time to think about errors and stuff like that. I think that can consider a good user experience. When they see the screen, they know exactly what they need to do. Oh, I need to do this, I need to do that. There's no need to think.
Speaker 3:There's a lot of prevention being put in place to prevent them from making mistakes. For example, if error happens and error does happen, the error will tell you exactly hey, this is what you're supposed to do, so I'll guide you through the process. So that is part of the user experience. There's a lot more. So when people talk about user experience, people like to focus on the interface only, which is part of it, but it's more than that. It's basically the whole journey when you start opening your browser, I would say putting in business centrals and how they navigate things, and personalizing and so on and so on. It's all encapsulated into that and I can call it the user experience.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like that you call out that the user experience is not just the interface they're interacting, but the full gamut of what they do day to day. You're calling out that when they're interacting with the application, that they should know what to expect in terms of results and, of course, how to properly get over any blockers quickly without having to figure out what does it even mean, because that kills the user experience, they get frustrated and so forth, and then they go look at Google stuff and then can create chaos after that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it stops you from being productive as well, right, so it stops your workflow, and then you spend a lot of time searching, and then it's good if you found a solution, but if not, then you know it's frustrating, right? Yes, you know it's frustrating right yes.
Speaker 2:And what are some things from the Business Central point of view? You've been working with it quite a period of time and we'll talk about your journey. I'm interested to hear a little bit more about your journey as well, as we started to talk about previously when we were planning this call. But what are some things that you feel within Business Central help enhance the user experience, whether it's from the user interface point of view or from a coding point of view or a process point of view? Some of the things that you found made the journey for a user to be more pleasurable.
Speaker 3:You mean, in terms of standard, what Business Central offers, right. So there are certain things that is quite good, like the personalization, right, so you can personalize it, you can change your profile and so on. So I think that is pretty good, like having a role center, having a dashboard. So I think that's a pretty good user experience. It's more modern now and it's because it's browser-based, you can easily copy and paste. So I think that's a step improvement from previous Nav. And then I think it's more intuitive right now compared to before.
Speaker 3:I think back then, when they released BC, it was a bit clunky and I didn't like it, but after several versions I started to like it. I was like I think this is better and I don't want to go back to the Nav version anymore. So there are improvements in terms of that. I think it's nicer right now, so you have a click and then you have a shortcut and so on and so on. So those are the things that probably simple things, but improve. I think there's also one thing that they recently added. Like they say on the sales line, normally the quantity shift. You cannot click on it, so you just, but now you can click and then it pops up. So there's a simple, nice like. But now you can click and it pops up. So there's a simple, nice enhancement, but it makes the experience a little bit better because you can now go through a lot of different places in just a few clicks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm a big fan of the personalization and one of the things that I still see quite a bit is that there's a lot of development on some of those personalizations where I see requests for hide this field, move this field. Can you do all of this? And I always say there's a difference between customization and personalization, because the personalization will stay with you, whereas the customization becomes, in my opinion, technical debt, because now it's code that's hiding the fields and moving the fields around, which requires some sort of development versus a configuration within the application. From what I've seen, personalization is underutilized in that sense, but I'm not certain outside that way. Has that been your experience as well?
Speaker 3:Yes, but I do wish there's a bit of more layer into it. So, for example, a variant, for example, some companies use variants, some people doesn't. Right, if there's only a toggle that says I'm using variant and it pops up on all variant-related pages, because if they use variant, they're probably going to use it on all variant-related pages, because if they use variant they're probably going to use it on all pages, there's no reason they need to personalize it. Right, we need to personalize it one by one. But if there's a way we can just say, oh, you know, this company is variant, I'm toggling it, maybe using application area or whatever, and then suddenly all variant pops up on every single pages, I would be happy with that. So there's another layer on top of that personalization. Even like lot, serial, if you use lot, then it shows up lot. If you use serial, it shows up serial.
Speaker 2:That would be awesome. I would think I do like that. That little subtle experience, as you had mentioned, is valuable. As you had mentioned, instead of having to go to every page and make the variant visible, you can do a global setting to say I'm using variants, make it visible. That would be an interesting modification.
Speaker 3:It's not like oh I want this page to have a variant, but not the other page. You will definitely need to have it on both pages. I think it makes sense to have it as a global.
Speaker 2:I like it. I like those little features like that. They should put that almost as a feature within feature management. Yeah, they could turn it off and on that. The lot numbers are a feature or even, as you'd mentioned, I know serial numbers and lot numbers may be slightly different based upon tracking code of the item.
Speaker 2:But, as you had mentioned, in essence, if you're going to use it, you would use it throughout the system, hopefully. Yeah, it's a little difficult. I've seen challenges where some didn't track serial numbers, a lot of numbers. Throughout the entire process they allowed it to be entered or not entered. That's one of those things. If you use them, in my opinion, should just be mandatory.
Speaker 3:Yeah exactly. And if you use them, for example, right example, if a new user comes in and they don't know about it so they don't put the variant code and it stares out and then it frustrates them. But if you show them in the page from the beginning, they probably notice something Rather than oh, I need to personalize first to show the variant. I think it's better to just show it there from the very beginning.
Speaker 1:No I like that, do you find it? So? You've implemented Nav and you've implemented Business Central. You know there's some similarities of the UI itself, but one thing that Nav I enjoyed was the buttons, the big buttons, the colorful buttons. Business Central not so much. Did you? Do you find that people um that are new to either nav or business central in your experience um, there's a quicker adoption?
Speaker 1:in business central versus nav, uh, or or even even to a point where someone moving from nav to business central their adoption is it a lot quicker now or it's a little bit more difficult in terms of finding things?
Speaker 3:I think it's. There are certain things that Nav is actually better and there are certain things that PC actually I think there's. I would think that PC is faster because it's more modern, but maybe for older people they might find that nav is more preferable because it matched with their previous old system, for example. So there's not much difference, right. But if they're new, they haven't used ERP or they use this quite similar modern ERP, then they probably find it's quite easy to adopt. So I guess it's different from person to person. Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and with user adoptions, it's always going to be a challenge to use a new system, right, especially an ERP system. So I think our job as a consultant is to make it easier for them. I normally told them that you know what new system is going to be a challenge. You'll spend like I don't know, a month or two or three to get used to it, uh, but after that it get better. That's something that I promise you. If you, if you cannot, if it's not getting better, talk to me and then we'll sort things out.
Speaker 2:Um yeah, that's very good and that's one of the things that I see in many implementations is they start to use the system day one and they think and you had mentioned this could be with any new system.
Speaker 2:It's not necessarily just business central. The first day they start using it they think it's cumbersome, they think it's slow. It takes them a long time because they're still using the system, getting used to it or getting comfortable with it. And to me I see so many requests for changes at that point, before they even had a chance to settle in, that sometimes, I'll deny it, I purposely will hold off on some of those because you know that they won't need them or they'll forget about them the enhancements because once they get fluid in the system, in the process of the system, some of those things that they thought were difficult before, because they're now comfortable, are no longer an issue.
Speaker 2:It's not because they accepted it and they accepted the time, it's just they thought it was inefficient at first, but it really is more efficient. They just didn't realize they were pausing to remember every single thing they needed to do before doing it. So that's where a lot of the time has come into play.
Speaker 2:But that's a very good right, and unlearning things takes time, um, and then yeah oh, yes, I, I remember going from a conversion and somebody was migrating from an old as400 system into, uh, nav, business central, whatever you'd like to call it, and this this one woman that's all she would ever say is oh, in the old system we could do this, in the old system we could do this. Oh, in the old system it was this. And in reality it was a system that somebody had built for them internally, so there weren't a lot of business rules. But she was making that claim periodically, over and over and over again, and basically just saying she wanted to go back, she wanted to go back, she wanted to go back.
Speaker 2:I think anybody who's worked with an implementation has experienced someone in an organization that was like that. Then, fast forward a period of time and they were making an acquisition and they had to use the other company's system to help, you know, through the transition. And it was funny that same woman that was complaining about moving to Business Central was now saying well, in Business Central we can do this.
Speaker 1:I can't do this. I can't do this. She did. She became the biggest advocate.
Speaker 2:after she started using it and seeing the benefits of the interface and the experience with it that I just sat back and I laughed because she was one of the more challenging users to bring forward, but then also, now that she was using it, was the biggest advocate for it.
Speaker 1:So they can someone in those situations. Those are superpowers, man.
Speaker 2:Just be an advocate for whatever she was using. That's a good superpower.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I'm curious how do you handle users like that? Right, like you can clearly know what Business Central can do for you and it works and there's a lot of opportunities for growth, of opportunities for growth. But when you're dealing with end users like that, or users of Business Central it doesn't have to be an end user how do you overcome that? Like, how do you get them over that hump? Yeah, how do you get over the hump? I mean like for you know, like you know, everyone may understand the process, you know, and they're learning along the way. It's a little bit difficult, but then you have that one person that can, you know, create chaos with everybody that understands it and they just cannot grasp. Do you just continue to move forward? Or is that when you start personalizing? Personalizing, um, you know the role. How do you go about that one teddy?
Speaker 3:um, I think it's uh, it's case by case, right? So, um, and and I think with any implementation, like you, you cannot make everybody happy, unfortunately um, so you, you try your best to explain things and then you try to reason like, oh, this is what it is, and then you try to help. Right, let me personalize it for you, or let me hear. So I think one of the first steps that you do is basically to hear their side of the story, because I've been an end user as well, I've been frustrated with my system as well, so I know how they feel, or more or less. So, talk to them first and then see, or maybe they actually have a good point, right? Oh, this is how you do it before.
Speaker 3:Oh, okay, so then maybe let's try to do it this way first for a few couple of days, and then, if you think that it's still not, let's try to do it this way first for a few couple of days, and then, if you think that it's still not, let's talk again. And there will be a time when there's nothing else you can do, right? So that's that's when you start talking with, like, like the, the other project managers, for example, to see if there's any way you can actually do it. So you, you, you bring other people in and then you try to solve, you know on how to tackle this issue, and then sometimes maybe you just need to keep moving forward, unfortunately.
Speaker 3:But I think initially I would try to persuade that person and then try to explain, and then sometimes we do go to the customization part if it does make sense. Right, if that person say that, oh, this is this and this is the reason why I'm doing this, and then they say, okay, that does make sense, let me bring that first, let me talk to that for our team. We have a team and then we discuss it, and then it turns out that that person does make a good point. So let's go to the customization part. But that's probably towards the end, because ideally you don't want to do customization, but there are times when you do and you need to acknowledge that that person is right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's a great call out because I think that people should have that conversation. Whether it's a tough one from you're dealing with a user that is very adamant and you know you hit a good point about just listening to them and understanding. Okay, what is the reason why you're apprehensive? And a lot of times in my experience where they're so used to the old system, they're not realizing that it was also customized to do a specific process and so from their experience they think like why can't Business Central do this? It did it over here. Then once you unravel and you realize actually it was automated for you and that's why it seems to do it that way and so it is okay to do that.
Speaker 1:It's okay to have the conversation Whether we invest in that automation right at the get-go or could we do that after. Because a lot of times they also have to understand how to do things manually. Again, this is my experience. They have to learn how to do things manually if the automation doesn't work. There's been countless times where the automation or the job queue stopped working and then nobody knows how to create the sales order because sales orders just come in.
Speaker 1:It just does it, you know, does it for me, and then it stops working and they're like I don't know how to create a sales order. So it's really important for you know users to it's not only you can still automate things, but also understand if it doesn't work. You should learn how to fly a plane right If autopilot doesn't work.
Speaker 2:You should still at least be able to land the plane Exactly. I'm hopeful that the pilot knows how to land a plane. The communication is important because, as you had mentioned, someone may have a system that may not have as stringent rules or they may not understand something as part of the process. But I also have found sometimes they need to make sure that they understand what they're doing and why, because one if you talk with them and they feel like you understand them and you listen to them, that helps give them some reassurance, but also sometimes saying you have to enter this field here because it impacts the picking process in the distribution center, for example. So if they have an understanding of the importance of what they're doing or why they're doing it, sometimes it's also a little less challenging.
Speaker 2:I have found, yeah, yeah, On top of the points that you had both made about listening to what they're looking for and, chris, your point is it's understanding the process, how to do the process, but also it's just to put on top of that why they're doing the process sometimes can bring that user adoption level up a little bit higher, because now they realize they may be helping someone else, because I have been through implementations where they want to make a small change on the sales order. But that change they make on the sales order created several different steps for somebody else in the cycle or the life cycle of the order or the fulfillment of the order, and it made one person's job easier but it made a whole warehouse a little bit less efficient. So those are some things to keep in mind as they go through that so it's a lot.
Speaker 2:It's a lot, I think, to do the implementations is. It can sometimes be challenging and you had mentioned you were a customer before a user, before a system, before you made the transition over to doing consulting. How do you feel that has helped you in your consulting career?
Speaker 3:It helps me a lot. So I started as a technical consultant right Fresh out of uni. I went into partners. I had no knowledge about business process, right, so they just handed me a pdf manual. It's like learn this about nav, like 4.0. So that's the official manual, um, and then I, as much as I tried to learn from that, I didn't know much about I.
Speaker 3:I think back then, when I, when I designed, when I um developed something, it's always feels that this is the best way. This is the one that I came up is the best way. You use it. So, and then, yeah, that was a bit arrogant from my part, um, but when I switched to use the site, I start to understand how they feel, how they think, how sometimes they don't like their partner, but, yeah, so you, you get to, you get to see their business process, their thought process, like this is what I do and I think, at the end of the day, they just want to do their work efficiently and as much as possible. So that shifts my perspective. So now, whenever I implement something, I start to think, oh, how are they going to use this? Are they going to? So that's why it's in.
Speaker 3:On information, I think it's a good idea for your consultant I mean mostly a dev to actually get to know the user, if possible, so you know visiting them. And then even, like, when you're designing a warehouse solution, you need to know how their warehouse works right. You need to know, like, whether they do this, whether there's a lot of like bins or whether they're wearing gloves, for example, and then how do they? Are they a super user or are they just user who just want to click a button, and so on and so on. So that changed my perspective. And then now, whenever I got a task for example, so, teddy, can you make this? I'll start asking questions like oh, why do you need to do this? Like, what happens if I don't do this? What happens if we don't do customization? It's like, why are we going this path? So I keep asking questions to get to know why we need to discuss, why we need a solution, and it puts me in a better way on when I design it. It fits them better. That's how I feel.
Speaker 3:And then I start also asking feedback because I think, as an end user, you just want to. I mean, partner comes, asks you what's your requirement, and then they leave and then they just give you during the UAT, for example, without asking you anything, right, and this is the solution that we designed. And then the end user will look at it and it's like that's not what we asked. So giving a feedback, like asking for confirmations throughout the implementation, I think, is also a good way of doing it, because I think, as an end user, that means that you will feel that you're being listened and your opinion is valuable.
Speaker 3:And then sometimes, when doing the requirement gatherings, you miss something. As an end user, you say, oh, I need this, I need this. But then throughout the implementation, you realize that, oh, there's actually something more that I haven't actually talked to you. So it's always good to actually go back to the customers. It's just clarifying so, do we have building this? This is what you want, and so on, so you don't go too far ahead, and yeah, that is a good point on the perspective and from listening to what to say, is something.
Speaker 2:Chris, it's what we've been saying now for I can't tell you how long. The most important part of implementations now is the relationship. It's the relationship that you build with the customer. It's not we're going to tell you how to manage the system, tell you how to do the system. In this space I always mention it's called partner for a reason. You're partnering with someone to help them with the implementation. You're not doing it for them, You're not owning it. They have to own it, and part of that is through the communication and the conversation.
Speaker 2:So, whether if you're a partner or a customer, you should be engaged through the design process, through the UAT process with each other so that there's an understanding of why we're doing things, how we're doing things and working together to make sure it's what's right for the individuals using it within an organization. So them feeling like they're also participating in the implementation also gives them some ownership in it and they want it to be successful. They want it to work. Versus if someone like you said you go through, send me your requirements, Okay, this is how we're doing it, we're setting it up this way, Then they're more likely to be well.
Speaker 2:I don't like the way this works. It doesn't work properly, they give you a little bit more resistance on it and also, when you're a partner, you're helping someone implement it, so from the user's perspective, they're the ones that have to use it every day. Exactly when we set up a system as a partner for someone, we're doing it one or two times, training them, show them how to use it, but it's not the day in and day out. So that feedback loop is extremely important during those processes and I know one of the challenges that I have seen and I'm just curious your thoughts on the amount of time that someone has to use and test the application. I see a lot of implementations where I feel that there's not a lot of testing time because they have their regular job to do.
Speaker 2:I guess you could say and not all organizations can afford to hire new people to do temporary jobs for a period of time and they may be able to offset it. But what are your thoughts or approaches on how to have an effective UAT or testing plan or process?
Speaker 3:Well, we definitely need more tests, right? I think testing is always good to make sure. And then they need to test it, not the developer, not the consultant, because the consultant can only test as much as they know, right? But the one who's going to use it is the user. So it's always good to ask them to perform the test, so you can assign what you call it like a super user or a champion to test it.
Speaker 3:And then, yeah, I mean, they do really need to invest on it. There's no going out of it. It's not like, I mean, if they don't test it, they'll pay it later on. So I think that's something that we need to make sure that we need a dedicated team from your side to test, like, if you don't test it, you'll pay. I mean, we try our best to make sure that the solution works, you know, as intended, and there will be no issue, and so on, but there will always be a gap. And then it's always better for your site to test it, because if you don't test it after we implement it, then you'll have a lot of issue. And then, because you have a lot of issue, you have a bad user experience and that frustrates users, and because you have more frustration, it will lead to more resistance.
Speaker 1:So invest early, I would say that is an interesting thing, brad, you're calling it out of. They have their day-to-day job and then they're expected to test. One thing that I don't see often is adding that as part of the budget towards your project, you have to budget the time of people have to take away to spend time on the project for UAT because it is an investment. So if you invest on user adoption, that means you're going to get your quicker ROI on Business Central because now your people will be, you know, quickly utilizing it as best as possible right away, versus not spending time of UAT and a lot of times you have to step away from that and then allow them to spend time of testing. So people that is one thing I'm not. I don't see often. You know when you're budgeting for project, not only budgeting for the implementation and the application costs but they don't ever budget the time internal time.
Speaker 2:That's a great point. That is a great point. It's because estimates often go with what would it take from the partner point of view to help with the implementation Exactly, even if someone doesn't know the number, to see a line item on that to say your internal testing, just so that they have in their mind that they need to allocate for that internal testing. I like that idea.
Speaker 2:I have not seen that. I've had the conversations, chris, but you're right. I think putting something like that on that proposal, just so that they're aware of it and they know that they also have to participate in this, may be helpful as well yeah, and you see that.
Speaker 1:You see that on a statement of work, maybe you know 40 hours of uat, but that's 40 hours of maybe me sitting down with them, of testing, or or 40 hours just my side, but it doesn. But it doesn't calculate on their side as well that they also have to do that 40 hours right, it's not just me, they're paying, but it's 40 hours is taking quote-unquote productivity of people getting their job done. They tend to forget that as well. So if you look at it from an analytical perspective, if you're really into those numbers, I think it's important for end users or clients of Business Central to maybe consider that. So then you can see the true cost of your Business Central implementation, not just partner.
Speaker 2:And that testing I'm not talking we could talk about if it's relevant. It's not automated testing or any programmatic testing. This is the user acceptance test. That's when they go through the process, but that's also a training experience. So, chris, to your point, the 40 hours and that's the point I was trying to make when I was talking about it's on the cost that they'll get from a partner or an estimate. It's the partner's time, but I would say, even if the partner is 40 hours, the customer should be spending more than 40 hours.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Maybe not one person, but collectively across the different departments or the different groups, depending upon the size of the organization. I would say it's much more than that, because what Teddy's proud of is the user experience. Getting them in to test and use it makes them more comfortable with it as well. So day one when they go to use it, they can get some productivity back as well, because now they have a sense of what they're doing and they don't have to wait for someone to show them how to do it. So to keep up with the shipping, to keep up with the collections, to keep up with the orders having that time up front also saves you time during the implementation. These are a lot of things that I think go hidden.
Speaker 2:And a lot of times people say Chris gave me an estimate it's going to be a week of UAT. I'm done, yeah, with no ownership. And Teddy, you brought up a big point and I like the word you use resistance. Even if it's not intentional, they will automatically start to resist because they're running into challenges, they're out of their comfort zone, so they're going to want to resist going to something new because they're going to want to withdraw and go back to what they're comfortable with and they start not liking the system.
Speaker 3:So they start giving excuses like oh, that's because they start finding fault on the system, right? So it triggers a chain of reaction of resisting the system.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you made a point too, teddy, about creating the feedback loop, because people tend to forget that when the user experience doesn't end once you go live, right, your partner goes away and maybe they're there to support from time to time, but it's a consistent, you know, improvement in getting the feedback Is it still working? Is it still working? And then sometimes partner will give you like, oh, we'll be around for 30 days to make sure there's no support needed. But it shouldn't be that. In that case, it should be a long-term partnership, as Brad noted earlier. That's why we don't use the word VAR anymore, right, because it's value-added reseller.
Speaker 1:We're just not a reseller, we're a partner, so it needs to be a long-term plan and one of the things that an end user or a business can do is, you know, have a consistent, maybe monthly, follow up or feedback, or maybe work with your partner to do additional training as a, you know, just to validate the process is still working. It may work at that time, but then in the next 30 days or next I don't know six months, there could be changes. That requires you to make adjustments as well, and you know, I see that too often. They just kind of move on.
Speaker 1:And then the user experience they get frustrated and what happens and I've used this term before is rogue processes, where someone gets frustrated. They Google stuff and then they read a document somewhere and they're like I'm going to do this here too, and then it doesn't fit their business, right, they start populating records where they shouldn't, and now, now you have technical debt, right, but to your point, yeah, you have to do this as a full gamut of, you know, user experience, not just from that moment on and that's it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a good point, yeah.
Speaker 1:Teddy, what are the biggest resistance, the most common resistance you get in terms of the user interface or user experience when they're getting on there. Is it typically the navigation component? What are the most common ones that you've encountered?
Speaker 3:Well, like Brad says, normally people compare with the old system. You know, like, oh, in my old system I can do this, in my old system I can do this. So it's always like that, the biggest part of it. And also there are some parts where they don't understand why they need to fill in certain things, right, well, and also there are some parts where they don't understand why they need to fill in certain things. Right, I've never filled in posting group before. Why do I need to fill in the posting group now? And so on and so on.
Speaker 3:And then sometimes even like with personalizations, right, if I don't need it, why don't you just hide it from me from the very beginning, for example, even though we teach them that you can actually personalize. So those are some of the resistance. And then sometimes, because the nature of the way is the central work, maybe like for auditing, so you need to do a certain way, you actually have more steps compared to the previous system, right? Oh, in the previous system we can just edit, for example, our lecture entry. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, so there's a reason behind it.
Speaker 3:So trying to, I mean trying to make them understand, I think that's sometimes. This is quite a challenge, um, and then sometimes, yeah, you kind of need to say this is the way the system works, this is, there's a reason behind it, it's for auditing purpose and so on. You're not supposed to edit. If you make a change, you need to do a credit and then you need to do invoice and so on and so on. So I think that's that's probably the yeah, quite common resistance.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's. That's funny. You're calling out like being able to edit, like that's common too. Coming from another erp system to business central. We're like why do I have to create an order in an invoice? Can I just create an invoice, you know?
Speaker 3:what if I just credit.
Speaker 1:Can I just reverse an invoice? No, you got to create maybe a sales return order, right, and then I'll create a credit memo, like there's still all of those things that you do have to take the time to educate and slow down, right, um, and not just so quickly, you know. Uh, uh, be brash about it and then, like they get frustrated, exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think of everything you're saying. I just it's. It's when you start to get older, you start to reminisce a lot, and I think this week I don't know, maybe I hit a point.
Speaker 2:I'm starting to reminisce about a lot of things. Chris is involved in some of the chats I'm in about reminiscing about things from before, but I was just thinking of so many implementations that I have gone through and some of the conversations I've had and going through it. Then I started thinking I spent my life doing ERP software. You wouldn't even think that people would go through that whole process of implementing ERP software systems as well. So it's, it's's safe. Now I'm gonna you know, there's a I had a conversation.
Speaker 1:We just came back from a conference so I had a conversation, somebody about, um, you know, making erp or have an erp class at universities, oh have you guys heard about that.
Speaker 1:There's been a push, or at least an idea out there, that they should make it as a curriculum at universities of how to utilize ERP. It doesn't have to be business central, it could be just whatever ERP, because nobody realizes that a lot of business requires ERP, not just a finance software, and so I thought that's pretty interesting. A great idea for future talent you know, utilizing Business Central or some form of ERP is to have an ERP curriculum. You guys heard about that.
Speaker 2:I haven't heard anything about that. I'm trying to think I haven't heard anything about that. I'm trying to think. I understand understanding core financials if you're a finance major or even a business major, but I agree now that, thinking as part of a business major, would they also cover inventory and proper processing? I think some of the other majors maybe as an elective would be beneficial. I could see it in the curriculum of the majors. Maybe as an elective would be beneficial. I could see it in the curriculum. But to be honest with you, I think the whole educational system will change soon because now we have tools online to help us learn things, versus the studies which give us the discipline of showing up, I guess you could say in learning things. But that is interesting. I would like to see that in some business classes to make sure you have the full suite of how to properly operate a business utilizing the software yeah yeah, I think that's an interesting because it's everywhere, right, erp is everywhere.
Speaker 3:I mean, if you go, if you go work somewhere, they're using some kind of erp software. So, um, getting to know that, uh, in in in a school in uni, that would be a great, you know, um, it helps you get into that company as well, because you already have the basic knowledge. Right, because when I, when I, when I joined as a partner, I have zero. So it's like what is customer ledger?
Speaker 1:well, even even as a career, right, like you know. You know getting into the for me, I just stumbled upon it. You know it's like oh, this is actually awesome, this is fun, and you build a career and you build a good livelihood.
Speaker 1:And for many that don't realize that until later in life, but if this was an opportunity for them, for them to understand, like even just learning how to implement erp, you can build a career out of that. You know why? Why isn't that not part of you know an option? Uh, in in schools, I think it would be amazing. Then, when we're looking for talent, it's like, oh yeah, we can, we can focus on people that took ERP curriculums and classes.
Speaker 2:I think that would be great. It's something targeting a functional consultant, for them to understand business processes in the sense of the applications that you use, versus the theory of it, similar to the reskill program where they go through how to use Business Central. I agree with you, teddy, some of the terms now to me are like standard terms.
Speaker 2:And some people don't know. Like, try to explain to somebody what a posting group is. You mentioned posting groups earlier. I'd love to hear everybody's definition of a posting group. I would ask either one of you, just to not put you on the spot, but maybe one of the future guests, chris will have to put on the spot to see if they were listening and they rehearsed, because what is a posting group?
Speaker 1:but but you know, I'm saying like it's, it's. I think it's important to educate earlier, because now they have ai um curriculums in school, like why not erp? I don't know, I, I don't know man, like it's, uh, I think it'd be amazing if we could get that. Then we could be to teddy brad, you could be to Teddy Brad, you could be professors. Man, that could be a shift for a career for some of us.
Speaker 2:I would take a position in a university teaching ERP software, absolutely, but just the processes behind ERP software. We can pick different applications to show how they do it differently and understanding the concepts of PICS consolidations that would be amazing good retirement plan right if they make it available once I retire?
Speaker 1:maybe I just want to become a professor.
Speaker 2:Chris, I think you should start a university, ku Chris University ah, there you go, you can start start doing an 8 weekweek course or something and then eventually you can break it up into having semesters. I'm sure there'd be plenty of individuals that would help teach the basic core concepts and again, it's just the core concepts of running ERP software and going through an implementation.
Speaker 1:Let's see all these interesting things. Whoever's listening to this is probably gonna go ahead and, like I'm gonna, that's my next move. I'm out of here.
Speaker 2:I'm just gonna teach yeah, training or teaching whatever you'd like to use, is becoming more and more popular.
Speaker 2:I we do have tools online, such as Copilot a lot of individuals share Teddy will talk about your blog in a few moments as well share a lot of information. But, chris, you mentioned the conference that we just came back from and I know you and I discussed one of the things I left from the conference, which was amazing. The conference was amazing I left with seeing where there is a need for we have all these features. We have all this documentation that tells us what it is, what it does, but I don't see a lot of how do I apply it? All right, so we have these features and functionality where it's now. We have a group of individuals implementing ERP, whether it's on the customer side or the partner side or even somewhere else, I guess, if that even exists, let's just think how do we implement, how do we apply, how do we have our critical thinking so that, to go through, to solve somebody's problem, how do we know which feature, which function to use, how do we know which feature, which function to use? And I'll say it I sat in one of Jen Claridge's sessions.
Speaker 2:I gave her a plug again for this. Don't tell her I don't want to tell her that I enjoyed it, but she did the projects versus production orders, which is great, because she started off saying, okay, projects were added, well, renamed or whatever, and this is what it does. Production orders, this is what it does. But she actually took that and made an exercise in her session of okay, this is what the customer's requirement is, which would you use? And then she went into the why.
Speaker 2:So it fostered the thought of we have all these features and functionality within the ERP software, but how do we know when to apply what? And to me, that's where I'm starting to realize there is a big gap. I guess you may say in sort of the implementation process or the training process is the critical thinking piece of okay, these are the scenarios of when you may want to do that, and then you could have some similarities and extract from there. Or just shows you that sometimes you have to take a step back and think is this the best process or is the other process the better process?
Speaker 1:Yeah. And so I guess that leads to my question for you, teddy. You know, being in New Zealand, do you normally work around? I think you had mentioned you have clients in Japan, indonesia and so forth. Is there any knowledge requirement in terms of like localizations and and country specific when you're implementing Business Central?
Speaker 2:Are there any?
Speaker 1:challenges there.
Speaker 3:Oh, yes, absolutely Like when I first came to Japan, I obviously had to know about the Japanese requirement. So that's when I need to rely on my colleague to explain to me. You know, how do they do things, is there any specific requirements? So that's something that you just kind of need to learn. And obviously, um, with this kind of limitations, you, you can be upfront to your client as well. Um, I think that's always my um approach is like you, you bring honesty and integrity into your implementations. So let's say, oh, I want to implement a us, for example, I'll tell them I don't know much about us, but I'll try it, I'll try to gather some knowledge and, um, I need your help as well to get that right. So, like in the financial side as well, I can try as much as I can from my side, but I also need your cooperation in order for us to implement this successfully.
Speaker 3:So, yes, there are certain things, like in Indonesia or in Japan, that requires you to learn, and especially like in Japan, for example, they do have their own language right, so they use kanji, for example, and BC, I think last time I checked, didn't have support for that language. So normally, partners implement their own language for Japanese. So if you're supporting a customer that has a different partner, you'll see that there's a different term that's being used, like for sales order they use this one, but for the other partner they use that one. Sometimes it feels like hmm, and sometimes they just use English. So they use katakana to represent the English characters. So sometimes some partners actually use that. So this is to support them.
Speaker 3:It's easier to read yeah, see, it's older.
Speaker 1:So, those are a challenge as well right.
Speaker 3:So when you actually take over other partners' work, for example, and then you look at it, it's like, oh, they, they used two different terms. That's just a language issue, right. Oh, they use a different term for it. So I need to make sure that they they are. This is that. That's not the terms that we use in in this partner.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know I'm always curious about that because you know it sounds like you're working with a lot of businesses within those surrounding countries and for me, you know, most of my clients if not all of my clients have worked with is just always been using, you know, english and so you know I've never been involved in an implementation where it's, you know it's an entirely different language, you know. So I'm always curious from your perspective, like the difficulty in the translation and you have to work with a partner that translates the language you know. In Indonesia, for example, do they use English or do they have language extension? Oh, they use English, okay.
Speaker 2:But they do have language extensions.
Speaker 3:I don't know that they have an Indonesian language. I haven't implemented in Indonesia for a while, so maybe they have, maybe they they, maybe they just rely on partners. But I'm pretty sure because most Indonesians are quite comfortable using English as like, as a system right. So they they are quite comfortable using English system, so we normally can keep it as it is and they quite quick to learn, while in Japan it's very different. They are used to Japanese systems and they even have their own Japanese ERPs, like Kanjou Bugyou. So in order for them to really utilize the system properly, they actually need to have a Japanese language installed and that's why most partners are actually offering a Japanese extension language.
Speaker 3:But then when you do a custom solution, you need to start thinking how do I translate this? So you start digging like, let's say, if you build a new table and then you refer to sales order number, you need to find out that sales order which terms that we used to talk about sales order. I was like, oh, two month order. That means I need to put the two month order as part of my translation. So you got to need to go all around the places to make sure that you have a consistent terms when you're building a solution Right, because otherwise if your terms is different?
Speaker 3:it's not yeah.
Speaker 1:You know I feel blessed that. You know we just deal with difficult end users sometimes and we speak English, right, and I can't imagine having to deal with a difficult user and a different language at the same time. And then there's cultural differences as well and how they do business. That that's fascinating. I'd love to sit in one of those implementation one day. I'm like just to just to feel humble, yeah, yeah, like hey, man, we're lucky that we're dealing with some of these uh implementation. I'll take that in a day. Um, again, we're isolated, like at least for me, isolated is just doing English-speaking implementation and it's just like how do they do it? How do they take Business Central on all the different languages? How does that translate in business? That's fascinating to me. It is.
Speaker 3:It is and it has its own challenge Even implementing it, especially if you don't speak the language right. So then you start having a problem of here and there, and I think when I first came to Japan I had zero knowledge of Japanese, so well, maybe a little bit like ordering food. So I tend to ask someone else to translate it for me. Once I'm finished, I ask a functional consultant or a deaf who actually can speak Japanese to translate it for me. Once I'm finished, I ask a functional consultant or a deaf who actually can speak Japanese to translate it for me. So I'm copying and pasting it without realizing what's the whole meaning about it. I just hope that I copy and paste the right thing and it's true.
Speaker 2:Translations are tough, because sometimes context is important, because the same word can be translated a few different ways to English and from English.
Speaker 3:Exactly.
Speaker 2:It's something to take in.
Speaker 3:And sometimes the word doesn't show up properly because you know like we have a double byte characters and so on. So sometimes, even though you type everything, sometimes when you compile it and show it on the pages, it doesn't show up. So you kind of need to check the whole things and make sure that everything and every word actually shows up properly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's true, and it kind of leads me to my next question about the market in New Zealand or even in that Asia area. You know, microsoft recently announced that they have 45,000 business central customers, or more than 45,000 business central customers, but they don't actually break it down right. So from your perspective, I mean, is there a lot of clients using business central in New Zealand or maybe within the Asia area?
Speaker 3:I think there's quite a lot. I'm pretty sure it keeps on increasing. We've got more and more customers. So I think it's a trend now that we have more and more business central customers and we have more partners right? So obviously it's not, probably it's not as big as US or Europe, but we do have an increase of people.
Speaker 1:Okay, so there is an opportunity. You know, I know that there is a huge user base in terms of even GP, for example, like Dynamics GP, in terms of even GP, for example, like Dynamics GP. So you know, I had an opportunity a year ago to build a community or Dynamics community out in the Philippines, for example. And in Philippines, you know, being part of the Asia area, you know they use a lot of Dynamics products and they, you know, I see the trend of using Business Central as an ERP as well. So I was just curious, countries outside of that, it sounds like from your answer, there is definitely growth, a steady growth, of utilizing Business Central. So my dreams of moving to the philippines may still be, you know, possible, do it?
Speaker 2:do it while you can do it. When I mean by can is while you're physically able, because exactly and then build a university there.
Speaker 3:You can build the philippines.
Speaker 2:You can build ku in the philippines.
Speaker 2:But we talk with many individuals and maybe it seems a little more dramatic to us in the United States, because the United States is large and we have states and some individuals will move from one state to another fairly regularly, but when you start talking with individuals such as yourselves and we meet other individuals that we've spoken with both on the podcast and in person at events they pick up and move to a totally different country. It just sounds like a different experience and I think I think it's something to do. Chris, I think you should move to the philippines and we'd be on a bigger time difference.
Speaker 1:But that's okay, we could figure out it's like 18 hour, I think, difference it's almost the same, as I think it's the same as new zealand's, like they're ahead yeah, yeah you'd be in the future, the things like that.
Speaker 2:I think everyone should have the experience of moving to a different place to see a different culture, or at least immerse themselves into a different culture for a period of time, because I think it's interesting to see how other people live, in a sense of what they they do from their day to day. As you had mentioned, a different culture you started we started the conversation with. In japan, they may be a little more busy, work a little bit more, whereas new zealand, to say they may not be as busy doesn't mean they're not as productive. I'm always careful to say that, because just because you're not as busy all the time doesn't mean you're not productive. So I think it's nice to see. And then also the different weather, and then, chris, I'd have some place to go visit yeah, yeah, it's a it is a tropical island.
Speaker 1:There's like 7 000 islands, and then you can choose whatever you want. So, yeah, okay, and that's how you can.
Speaker 3:You can yeah yeah, sorry I mean, especially if you, if you pick a country where you don't speak the language, that's even more awesome, because now you start to need to learn the language.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and the? I think the language shapes the way you think as well. I think I've found a lot of foreigners, for example, like US, when they go to Japan, they start speaking more slowly and try to let other people to understand as well, so they try to articulate it better, for example, instead of just speaking fast, because for the Japanese people, it's hard for them to catch up if you're speaking too fast. So the way you speak also started to change, so your English language started to change as well, the way you speak, and so on. So it helps you better, I feel, in terms of articulating and communicating, because you want to make sure that the other party actually understands you. And then the way their language also works differently, like a Japanese language, for example, there's a lot of times where they actually don't have the subject, because the subject is considered like it's a common knowledge for you to know. It's an action or something like that.
Speaker 1:No, so it's more towards like it's a common knowledge. You know it's an action or something like that.
Speaker 3:No, so it's more towards like we don't. It's more like passive, like the work is done or information will be doing so, because it is understand between the world party that who's going to do it, so there's no need to actually use the subject, so most of the time it's used as a passive. Like this works needs to be done by this, so the so you, you kind of need to learn how to like captures the intention, like yeah yeah, it's really hard.
Speaker 3:And then I think, when I first um, learn it, I think so. I had a discussion with a colleague of mine and then we start talking about all this, this, this, this, this, and then by the end it's like, oh, we agree. And then at the end of the conversation I was like, so who's going to do it, you or me? Yeah, it's implied, right? So there are implications.
Speaker 1:It's implied Like they.
Speaker 3:They don't have to tell you, it doesn't have to be part of the language communication. It is implied that you're going to do it. So you start to read people's. You gain that ability to kind of read people, because when you study Japanese that's how they do. So I think it's a good learning opportunity. When you move to a country that you don't know the language, you don't have to be good to go extreme, like to go to China or to go to Japan where they don't use the same characters. But yeah, I mean it's a very good learning experience. If you start to learn the cultures and the way the language works, then you can start understanding them better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's important, important, I think a lot of times, everyone has a viewpoint of what something may be like until they go through it and live it and experience it, and it may change your perspective if I could plug something really quick, brad, I I think it's very important to have your team to be as different backgrounds I know Brad and I have worked with different individuals with different backgrounds, but it does help in terms of communicating because we, you know, we've worked with. We work with people that are from Japan and have no clue, but we, you know, we happen to work with somebody that can speak the language and so that a little bit of you know the ability to speak different languages. It's like chef's kiss, because then you know you have a better way to communicate, especially when you're trying to help a business implement Business Central. So I just want to put that out really quick. So thanks, brad.
Speaker 2:No, thank you. I think it is important and that you'd get different perspectives with the different backgrounds. So it helps you have a better implementation or a better experience. A few months ago, when we talked, you mentioned about your blog. What types of information do you share in your blog?
Speaker 3:I share everything about Nav and Business Central, basically functional side, technical side. I guess it started because I want to share the knowledge. It's also because I also want to remember how to do certain things. So I put it there as well for me so I can always go back to it and read it and then do it. But yeah, so I think in the beginning I just want to share. So that's why I started my blog, so I started sharing things like small things like oh, this is how you do this, this is how you do this. And then it's kind of grow from there and then right now I'm just sharing tips. So every Friday I try to share tips like this is how you do certain things in Business Central. This is how you do this, this is how you do this. Now sometimes people will say, oh, that's a common knowledge. But I believe that common knowledge is not that quite common, and then, especially for new users, right.
Speaker 2:You hit it right, you hit that nail right on the head and that's what I say, and that's one of the things, even when we talk about session planning at conferences and such common knowledge to who, because somebody is always at a different point in their journey. Some organizations, some individuals that may be working with partners are just at the very beginning of their journey of business central. So how to enter a customer?
Speaker 2:or what is a posting group is new to them, whereas someone who's been working with it for some time they already understand it and they know it. And that goes with perspective, and sometimes you have to take a step back and say the perspective of I know this, but somebody else may be new. And as to your point, it's not so common because somebody's starting out their journey.
Speaker 2:We all have to learn somewhere, exactly or at some point you're not just born with the knowledge of what a customer posting group is, what a vendor posting group is, what an inventory posting group is we're going to keep going uh-huh. What a general business processing group is, what a general product I can't even speak right now. General product posting group. Do you know other posting groups? There's all these different types of posting groups bank account yeah and it also helps me as well, right.
Speaker 3:So because when I, when I write, that means I need to think, because you you cannot explain what you don't understand. So by writing it down, you you start to think, oh, how do I explain it? And it helps me also in the future when I try to explain it to someone, because I already know how to explain it. So it does help. When you started helping people, you actually help yourself to be better.
Speaker 1:So that's why I actually do blogging as well and sharing the knowledge we do appreciate that, sharing that knowledge, because there are times where you, you research, you know, look, look it up on the internet and then your, your blog shows up. You know, I just had somebody a couple of weeks ago. It's like, oh, I was stuck in this and I found your blog. I appreciate that. Or even for me, like I, I forgot about something.
Speaker 2:I looked it up and it's like, oh, yeah, I wrote that, that's I was just about to say that that's what happened to me is I was searching for something one time and I found something I had. I said, I wrote that yeah so it's, uh, it's helpful. Well, teddy, thank you for taking the time to speak with us oh, I think this morning yeah this evening, this afternoon, depending upon where the three of us are located.
Speaker 2:We do appreciate your time. I always say and I mean it time is the currency of life. Once you spend it, you can't go back. So anytime anyone spends with us, we greatly appreciate, because it's a part of your life, that you could be doing something else, but you're sharing it with us and sharing it with the members of the community or anyone that listens with this. If anyone would like to get in contact with you to learn a little bit more about you or some of the things that you do, or talk about business, central implementations, what's the best way for them to get in contact?
Speaker 3:They can reach me through LinkedIn. I think that's the best way because I normally look at LinkedIn. I can respond better. Yeah, so LinkedIn is one way.
Speaker 2:And we'll have a link with how to reach you on LinkedIn with the episode. And we again, we thank you for your time and we look forward to speaking with you again soon. All right, thank you, all right.
Speaker 3:Ciao, ciao. Thank you for having me. Bye, thank you, bye.
Speaker 2:Thank you, chris, for your time for another episode of In the Dynamics Corner Chair, and thank you to our guests for participating.
Speaker 1:Thank you, brad, for your time. It is a wonderful episode of Dynamics Corner Chair. I would also like to thank our guests for joining us. Thank you for all of our listeners tuning in as well. You can find Brad at developerlifecom, that is D-V-L-P-R-L-I-F-E dot com, and you can interact with them via Twitter D-V-L-P-R-L-I-F-E. You can also find me at matalinoio, m-a-t-a-l-i-n-o dot I-O, and my Twitter handle is matalino16. And you can see those links down below in the show notes. Again, thank you everyone. Thank you and take care.
