Dynamics Corner
About Dynamics Corner Podcast "Unraveling the World of Microsoft Dynamics 365 and Beyond" Welcome to the Dynamics Corner Podcast, where we explore the fascinating world of Microsoft Dynamics 365 Business Central and related technologies. Co-hosted by industry veterans Kris Ruyeras and Brad Prendergast, this engaging podcast keeps you updated on the latest trends, innovations, and best practices in the Microsoft Dynamics 365 ecosystem. We dive deep into various topics in each episode, including Microsoft Dynamics 365 Business Central, Power Platform, Azure, and more. Our conversations aim to provide valuable insights, practical tips, and expert advice to help users of businesses of all sizes unlock their full potential through the power of technology. The podcast features in-depth discussions, interviews with thought leaders, real-world case studies, and helpful tips and tricks, providing a unique blend of perspectives and experiences. Join us on this exciting journey as we uncover the secrets to digital transformation, operational efficiency, and seamless system integration with Microsoft Dynamics 365 and beyond. Whether you're a business owner, IT professional, consultant, or just curious about the Microsoft Dynamics 365 world, the Dynamics Corner Podcast is the perfect platform to stay informed and inspired.
Dynamics Corner
Episode 406: 📈 The Evolution of Marketing in the AI Era 📉
💎 In a conversation with Kris and Brad, Jon Rivers discusses the evolution of technology and the importance of using artificial intelligence (AI) in marketing. He highlights how customer interactions have changed, requiring businesses to adapt their messaging and strategies. With customers more informed than ever, especially in purchasing software like ERP, companies need to rethink their marketing approaches. Instead of just selling products, the focus should be building trust and nurturing customer relationships through a strong online presence. 💎
🛑 AI is becoming increasingly important in marketing strategies.
🛑 Businesses need to adapt their messaging to reflect cloud solutions.
🛑 The importance of humanizing AI-generated content cannot be overstated.
🛑 People buy from people, not just products.
🛑 Building trust is essential in business relationships.
#MSDyn365BC #BusinessCentral #BC #DynamicsCorner
Follow Kris and Brad for more content:
https://matalino.io/bio
https://bprendergast.bio.link/
Welcome everyone to another episode of Dynamics Corner. What is thought leadership?
Speaker 2:Brad, I'm your co-host, Chris, and this is Brad. This episode was recorded on February 5th 2025. Chris, Chris, Chris, what is thought leadership? That's an interesting question and with that question comes an interesting conversation. We had the opportunity to speak with a wonderful member of the community that has a lot of experience and knowledge about thought leadership and many other topics conversation. We had the opportunity to speak with a wonderful member of the community that has a lot of experience and knowledge about thought leadership and many other topics. With us today. We had the opportunity to speak with John Rivers. Good morning, sir. How are you?
Speaker 3:doing.
Speaker 2:Morning.
Speaker 3:John, doing good, doing good.
Speaker 2:Excellent, excellent. I'm looking forward to speaking with you. Thank you for taking the time to talk with us. I love the bus, the Volkswagen.
Speaker 3:I love the Volkswagen to myself.
Speaker 1:Do you have one of those?
Speaker 3:I don't have the bus. It's on the list to get at some point. But I do have an old Volkswagen car.
Speaker 2:Oh, nice, nice.
Speaker 3:Yep, I have a convertible common gear. Wow common, common deer, common gear oh, let me see see if I can get a rough idea. Hang on a second. You don't see the, but that will give you sort of, maybe, an idea.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:See, I could picture John cruising the beach. Yeah, top down, cruising the beach, palm trees, it's like the Volkswagen bus and it's nice. Yep, yeah, definitely that's the way to live. That's the way to live.
Speaker 1:You know it's interesting, that Volkswagen bus right there when I bought this house, when I was going through, you know, the whole place right. And then there's a shop. And when I went through the shop I was like man, this is amazing, I'm excited because there's a shop for me. And then I went to go look, there was a covered car vehicle. At that time I didn't know what it was. I pulled it down just to look at a peek. You know, I'm sure that the owner would have said no, but I took a peek anyway and it was a red Volkswagen bus. I thought it was gonna come with the house. I actually asked for it. Hey, does this come with the house? And he goes. Oh, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2:I don't think someone would remodel that thing from scratch.
Speaker 1:It's like okay. That's like are sure, I was trying to haggle the guy to see if he'll leave it.
Speaker 3:Depends on what it is. Some of the buses nowadays can be pretty expensive.
Speaker 1:Yes, I'm sure it was pristine. They should bring them back. They do, they are bringing them back.
Speaker 3:They have. They've brought back an ID which is sort of an electric bus. You either love them or you hate them. If you're a Volkswagen fan, you're either one side. You're not in between. It's a hate or a like.
Speaker 1:They have the electric version.
Speaker 3:Bratz, that's all it is. Yeah, yeah, the electric.
Speaker 2:I'd have to try it. I'm stuck on the Teslas at this point just maybe because I haven't driven any other electric vehicles. Maybe I should try some of the other electric vehicles to see how they work.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean the bus is I don't know, it's all full electric. I mean my daughter is my older daughter loves hanging out when I go to the meets and stuff and actually wants an old bus. She said why would I pay like $70,000, $80,000 to get an electric bus and it doesn't look that great, where I could have an older one and probably have it all totally done out and for less money?
Speaker 2:I'd want a bus with one of the campers at the top, like the whatever they pop up or whatever they call Vehicles back then, so much different than they are today. But, mr Johnstarr, we appreciate you taking the time to speak with us. Been looking forward to it, as I had mentioned. Before we jump into the conversation, would you mind telling us a little bit about yourself?
Speaker 3:Who am I? Who am I? Well, I'm John Rivers. I co-own a marketing company called Marketeery with my business partner, diane Sager. We focus on the ERP and CRM side of the fence. When it comes to marketing, we're a full-blown agency. We help from everything from messaging, websites, seo, content, development, all those things that's.
Speaker 3:That's a little bit about, should we say, the business side, which, hey, I'm not going to try to talk too much more about that. People can work it out, what we do and who we are myself personally and I'm going to give because I know you said to me this could be as long as it needs to be but, um, I think I was on another podcast and it's like okay, let me, let me give you a little bit of history. Where did I start? Where did I come from? Um, I'm actually. I actually trained as a developer and probably a lot of people don't, some people probably starting to get that but I actually trained as a developer. I trained on cobalt assembly and I didn't do too much on pascal, but I did a little bit on that, some c++.
Speaker 2:That's where I started and I realized quickly that that was not what I wanted a little fun fact pascal is where I got started as well, but I did take assembly language and cobalOL in school when I was growing up. Right. So, Chris, do you remember those languages?
Speaker 1:That's how I started is actually COBOL. I worked in a data center and their whole thing was on COBOL.
Speaker 3:And I got introduced to that.
Speaker 1:I'm like ooh and then I moved on.
Speaker 2:Assembly was great with the move and the shift and keeping track of that. That was all.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I had some fun when I was doing a work experience when I was at school and I ended up going into a company that actually built basically the navigation devices for boats more personal boats and stuff like that and they just let me loose on playing around with the assembly because that's what they were using to actually control the controls. They said do what you want, build your own device and write your own code. So that was a lot of fun back then.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry. I didn't mean to cut you off. We can continue with who you are. You struck a nostalgic moment for me.
Speaker 3:No, it's actually. I'd add to that. It's like, yes, I may be getting older, but at the same time I think my college was a little bit behind at the time. So if I'd been one year earlier in college it would have been punch tape that's going to show you back. Thank God it would have been punch tape that's gonna show you. Thank god I didn't have to do punch tape, because that would have been a nightmare. I know a friend of mine who actually did do it and it simply wasn't fun.
Speaker 3:Um, roll forward. Um, I actually got more into consulting. That's where I started really. Um, I actually work for a company that specialized in fonts. That's where I probably got a little bit of my design concept. But I actually ran a division that actually created fonts and if anyone remembers the days of laser printers, we used to have a cartridge that used to plug in with fonts. If anyone remembers that, we were the main supplier of those cartridges around the world. So, yeah, so we were the ones who actually did all that development, put them together anyway. Roll forward from there.
Speaker 3:I continued consulting. I actually got more into the I would say the ERP side of the fence. So it was more consulting at that time it was JD Edwards. We I was working for an ISV at that time that had a solution that bolted on to JD Edwards. World software stayed with them through their one world and she was, like I said, consulting, did some help desk. I then migrated over to the US because I was asked to come over and actually help run their East Coast division, run all the consulting and help desk team, which is what I did and just kept on doing that.
Speaker 3:And then suddenly we went through the time where PeopleSoft decided they were going to buy JD Edwards but then Oracle came in and squashed everything and that really killed pretty much killed the business we were in. It just changed everything. I mean, we still kept going but we knew we had to find another ERP and that's where Microsoft came into it and I was part of a team that actually went out to start investigating and then actually helped the dev team or what dev team? Actually it wasn't even a dev team, it was one guy that was part-time given to me. We had to go out and try to integrate. First of all we were looking at GP or Great Plains as it was back then, but instead I said, look, that's not going to work for us. It's too low. It's too low price. We ended up working with Xapta Good old.
Speaker 3:Xapta. Wow, xapta 2.5 is where I've started changing my tune of how long I've been in the industry. I'm going to do it by versions of software now. So I hit the dynamic space in Zapda 2.5.
Speaker 2:See great minds think alike, because this is what I say to everybody that Microsoft changes the names of the products on purpose. Because that's how you know how long someone has been working in that space. Because if you call it Navision, we know that you started back when Navision was popular Microsoft Dynamics Nav. If you look at all the names that space because if you call it Navision, we know that you started back when Navision was popular Microsoft Dynamics Nav if you look at all the names that change Yammer becomes Veeva, engage, entra ID was Active Directory. So whomever's speaking, I have a sense of okay, so you've been working this long with the product, so I like that philosophy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so that's where I'm gonna go, because maybe it seems like I'm not as old as I am.
Speaker 2:Well, you're talking punch tapes. I'm sorry, that gives it away. I'm not trying to to say anything without saying anything, but the reality is, I think maybe I should keep that one out of the conversation next time.
Speaker 3:Um, so with that we we worked, I worked on it, got into, also bought a little bit of my dev experience in it, worked with them. I actually did write some X++ back then was actually implementing. I could even implement. Back then I could implement Xaptor no issues myself, Got that solution into the marketplace, actually built it out, got more into pre-sales working with the partners as we were trying to onboard that into the partners. For anyone that wants to know what was that product, it was actually originally called Crateform, which was then taken over by Bottom Line Technologies later on.
Speaker 3:So I continued working on that, really staying in consulting, implementation, pre-sales. I started to realize I really want to get into managing the partners. I was sort of doing it but I was not doing it. Should we say it wasn't my official job? So I actually left that ISV and joined another ISV called Data Mations. Some people may know who they are. I was probably I think I was talking about like the 23rd employee when I joined them. I joke, now I'm still recovering. I think I've nearly recovered from all the EDI doctors. I nearly got those out of my head.
Speaker 2:EDI wow, the most standard non-standard on the planet exactly that is true, like they say edi is a standard. I'm gonna keep cutting you off just because we're going down memory lane here I don't even know why we use edi today in the sense of the way edi works, because the the whole premise of edi with charging by the kilo character and consolidation of characters to reduce transmission, back when you had 200 baud modems like it's 2025. I understand technology and systems need to change, but over the years it's still not changed.
Speaker 3:It doesn't like that I mean some areas have evolved, but it's still there. Yeah, I's still out there. I mean some areas have a bulb, but it's still there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't understand it. I try but.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I joined them to actually help run their channel, so got in. I mean, they were a little heavier at that time in the AX side. Now we're going to change the names right, names right. So I had she helped them build out their division nav, ax, f&o whatever words we're going to use that and also GP practice and grew that. I left a little bit later. I know now that they got sold right back to SBS. I think I was somewhere just shot they. They were shy of about 100 people when I left. At that time I decided to change directions. That's when I went out into the marketing world.
Speaker 2:It's like so how the hell did he get from dead to?
Speaker 3:marketing. I had to At Data Masons. We didn't have. We had a part-time marketeer. I had to do a lot of stuff myself, got into a lot of social media. It was probably the key I built out my LinkedIn network of massive at that point of everyone I could find that I could influence to actually come and get that product at that point.
Speaker 2:That's interesting. What a journey that you have.
Speaker 3:What a journey that you have.
Speaker 2:So you've been around, you've seen a lot and it is interesting to see the shifts of how people get somewhere. And I think you know, as you progress through your career you start off wanting to do all that crazy coding type stuff and then, as you get older, you want to do other creative type stuff that doesn't require as much work. I think More relationship.
Speaker 1:It is.
Speaker 2:You know less much work, I think more relationship it is. You know less coding and well, I think psychologically you want to get back, give back in a sense, so you want to be able to talk with people and help people and interact with people, versus sit and just do this cool, great build type thing. I think as we mature and through life you know not to talk about psychology, I think sometimes I do have that.
Speaker 3:I sort of like think, oh, I could go back and do that. At the end of the day it's like I look at I don't know, let's just take some like a power automate, right, I like the concept of that. I think, ooh, I think I could probably do that, right. But at the same time it's like, okay, I really want to get delved into that again. But I think even in our everyday of what we do, we're dealing with technology and marketing. I mean, we can put the word AI into the conversation that's evolving. So I think having a technical mind at the moment is actually helping understand what's evolving in there. And I think you have to, in marketing, have that mindset, especially when you're working with the clients that we're working with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're utilizing a lot more technology in the marketing space because, I mean, you've got to adjust too right. The industry is going specifically the areas of your focus and then in having to utilize different tools to reach the audience you're looking for, um and what you're targeting, so that's right that must be a crazy time for you. Then, with all this uh ai coming out and it's like how, how do you, you know, how do you integrate that with your day-to-day stuff?
Speaker 3:It's challenging, right, because what you think is today, it's not tomorrow, right At the end of the day, and it keeps changing. So, yeah, so it's finding how do we? I think sometimes, I think at the early stage was like how do we battle it? Right, from a marketing company, because we don't want our prospective customers using it to actually take away business from us. Right, that was probably the first mindset you had, and over the time, it's like no, we've got to encompass it and support it and find ways how we can use it to be more efficient, but at the same time, be not scared that, hey, some of the prospective people out there are going to be using it as well, and that's okay.
Speaker 3:But it's not the finished result. I think it's going to simplify it, right? Yes, you may have it write a blog, but you can't just publish that blog. As it's right, you got to do some work on top of that. You got to humanize it, you've got to go through and make sure that um ai didn't go and reference something that isn't true. Right at the end of the day. It can do that and I think if you don't go through it and you don't know your information, it can really take you down the wrong path. So what I'm saying is we've got to encompass it, and I'm constantly looking at it.
Speaker 3:Next week I'm going to be at the Tampa local chapter meeting for the Tampa Roadshow for Dynamics Communities, right, and I'm going to be talking about AI prompts for co-pilot, so we're going to go through some of that. So at the end of the day, I was looking at I mean, I've done a similar one of that session before, but I'm already starting to look at it and say, okay, I probably need to refresh some of those prompts, because those prompts back then were probably what we thought. But hey, we can probably tighten them up and make them more efficient today based on what we've learned with everything changing, you do have to refresh that.
Speaker 2:But I think you do bring a great point in that conversation that it's embracing technology and using technology where it fits within an organization and not feeling like you have to use the latest and greatest all the time.
Speaker 2:I think that's the challenge with many that I've been speaking with lately. Your point is great because you're coming from the marketing point of view and your client base will most likely use AI because AI, in some fashion, is everywhere. So you're not going to compete with the AI, so it's embracing the technology, incorporating into your workflow how you could add the business value or that relationship value. It goes back to what I think is a big part of this whole AI space is the relationships become more important versus just being able to churn out assembly line type stuff right, I think also, I think on top of that as well, right, I think it's um, what you know up here right at the end of day, um, ai doesn't?
Speaker 3:I mean ai only knows what it's being given. Um, the analogy I like to use is hey, what are we coming up? We're getting very close to April when we're going to see wave one right for the Dynamics products come out At the end of the day, if no one has put that out in the interweb, how is AI going to get that information right If none of the new features and functions which are going to be there have been shared online? And then AI has sucked that in to what I like to call. It is like it's data bank. If it's not sucked it in, it can't tell you anything about wave one, the 25.
Speaker 2:I laugh. It just can't. I laugh at that because I think of that sometimes. I'm like with everybody using Copilot to generate content right when is the point where there is no more content to be used because copilot's creating all of the content? The new content it's, it's just, it's that you know, never-ending cycle for me, because copilot creates more and more content based on content that it knows, so people are using that to publish content. So somebody has to have the original content somewhere to put into this.
Speaker 3:And that's the person that's going to be out in the front right, and I think that's the one that's going to change everything, because they're the ones who are writing the original content that hasn't been talked about before. I think, over time, they're the ones who are going to stand out and be those experts.
Speaker 2:They have to be, because we'll have. Yeah, unless AI starts creating its own information.
Speaker 3:Well, there is that.
Speaker 2:Where it will be able to do its own tests, its own analysis and talk to itself. I'm waiting for the time where I can just sit and have a full-blown conversation with it. I know you can do that in partial now, but you'll never need to leave the house.
Speaker 3:Well, as long as it puts a paycheck in my bank account, I don't have an issue.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Mailbox money.
Speaker 2:Brad.
Speaker 1:Exactly, it's called mailbox money.
Speaker 2:It's a way that you get to that too. It's a challenge. So from the marketing point of view, who is your target that you market?
Speaker 3:What's your typical customer or target audience? So we really focus in on erp and crm partners and isx. That's where we've really focused in, with a very strong focus in the dynamic space. Now, does that not include the power platform? Yes, it does. It does, I think to me. I still lump and if I'm right or wrong, I still lump the power platform into the dynamic space or into the ERP space, right, and CRM, because it's interconnectable. I know you could use it elsewhere, but I think that really becomes and that's an area that we really focus on is the dynamic space. I mean, most of our customers are there.
Speaker 3:You're probably going to ask well, okay, there's a lot of different size partners. We work from all different. I mean, for some partners who may be small shops of a couple people, we're their complete department for marketing, right, we are their marketing team and we do everything for them, from their website all the way through their content creation to analyzing and all that stuff, and then share that back. We could go to the next step where we're starting to get to a hybrid version of that, where we're doing some of the work and they have internal people that do some of the other work. Or we may go to a bigger organization where and again, this is just a couple of new clients we took on recently where they're breaking more and more into the dynamic space but they don't have an understanding of the products inside that space. They understand maybe Acumatica or the Sage or those products. So what we're also bringing is our understanding of how the dynamics world is working for them. We bring that into the equation because we have a deep understanding based on our history of the ecosystem. So again, if you go back, I can lean on if we're working with an ISV. I can lean on how we built some of our relationships with partners. We can actually help them in a marketing way. How are we going to market to we're a new ISV in the space? What do we do to get that ISV product into the partner community? We know that because we've done it.
Speaker 3:I probably should add into my business partner Diane Sager. She has got a good history as well. I mean she was actually with Western Computers, western Computer way back in time when they were a small shop and helped them build up. She was actually their VP of sales and marketing back then and helped them grow. And now I mean they're a big ship out there, right there. They're one of the cruise liners which are going around picking up clients. And then later on she ended up going and working for jet reports as they're working on the marketing team, so I think she was VP of marketing for them. So again, and she was there through that they already had good growth. But she was there when they went through the growth of getting their product JetReports as an inside the NAV product at the time and then just snowballed from there. So again, a lot of experience from the community we can get into the community side.
Speaker 2:Definitely want to get into the community side. That was the perfect lead-in to what I wanted to ask you about.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So the community comes a big play into us being right. So again, I think that gives you an idea of probably our ideal customer. I think it's really down to, at the end of the day, if you're struggling with the eco because you don't know it and you need content, we help a lot with that. If you're new to space, or even if you've been out there is making sure you're messaging right. So we went through a good phase where we still do it's like where and we still I probably laugh about this. Sometimes there's still a lot of partners out there. You go to their websites and it feels like they're still trying to sell on prep. They're not talking anything to do with cloud right. We can see some smiles there and at the end of the day, we're there. We're helping those partner transition themselves to that different messaging that needs to be done for the client. So we go through a lot of that with partners as well and it's still happening today.
Speaker 2:I think messaging is extremely important. I'd love to get into the community because I know you've been a big part of the community as well too. The community as well too. But to bring back, I understand now the focus of your marketing is you help individuals primarily partners or ISVs be able to market the product that they're the product suite. I will say that they're looking to work with to their target audience. And it does become more important now because I think, generationally, the target audience of their customers is different, because people now do a lot of research before they reach out, whereas before it was Chris, I'm looking to do an ERP software product, what do you have for me? And then Chris would would explain business central, demonstrate business central, sell business central, where now I'm seeing the shift of hey, chris, I'm buying business central, what can you do for me?
Speaker 2:yeah, it's to me it seems to be there's a shift of mentality, of approach with the decision makers. With all the information that's available online even more so with ai goes to your point, to having the proper message out there that a lot of the research is already done beforehand and what somebody is really looking for is the relationship to help guide them through the journey.
Speaker 3:I 100% agree with that, but at the same time, getting that messaging correct right, because, yes, we, we go back. But I think the ERP let's just talk ERP, right. Erp space is so much more crowded today than it was even 10 years ago or 20 years ago. Right, you could probably kept. I mean, I'm gonna get beaten up here, I know well, but you probably could hypothetically count the number of ERP systems on one hand. Right Now. You probably need your hands, your feet and God knows what else, because at the end of the day, there are folks out there and we could probably say, okay, yes, it might be BC under the hood, but they're not promoting it as BC, they're promoting it as a vertical product.
Speaker 2:Correct, yes, which?
Speaker 3:makes it look like there's even more ERP solutions. See, EDI came into it, but ERP solutions.
Speaker 1:I sense your trauma.
Speaker 3:So, at the end of the day, it's still. It gets complicated. So, at the end of the day, it's how do we get out there in front of the noise, right? But I think you're right there, brad. There is so much opportunity for researching now that the buyer is a lot more intelligent about where they're going to go. And let's roll it back to AI. Ai is even going to play into that as well, right? I just wrote an article about hey partners and ISVs. Are you starting to think about how do you get yourself as a source on AI? Right? Because it comes back with sources. You've got to start looking at it, because that's going to change the search process as well over the next few years. I mean, I know from default on my machine when I go to search, it doesn't default to Google or Bing, it defaults to an AI tool for search.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:Yep and then from there.
Speaker 2:And a lot of us. Then, from there, the, the, we could go off on a tangent forever. What time is this? But it's true, and I I listened to some podcasts obviously I listened to this one sometimes as well, and it it is changing. It's you.
Speaker 2:You now search, even if you go, even if you do go, to Google, you search for something. It gives you a summary at the top and then you find the sources, where, and then it'll also list the pages. But I use that more now as I'll read the summary, see the points, see the sources and then, based on the point that it shows me or the paragraph that it gets from the source, I'll click that source link Versus. Sometimes I will scroll down if the information that I have isn't quite what I was looking for, for whatever reason, which again could be the way that I'm searching. Not to say that the tool is not proper, it's did I use the tool properly and I'll see the link. But most of my searches, the sources that I go to, will come from that top bracket, bracket, or even typing into Copilot a question and it will give me some sources.
Speaker 1:The behaviors change right, not just from a client side, but also from partners. Like you said, john, you're having maybe smaller partners that wants to get into the space, or an ISV that's getting into space. You're guiding them through not only from your experience, but what you're also seeing from the behavior of like, how prospects are now looking at buying a solution, and so it's really more important than ever to use data behind that using and from your gathering data in terms of like, the behavior of how people now buy products. It's certainly shifted um in the last at least the last five years of how this ecosystem of example business central is change, because now you have your marketplace right, your app source, and that's how people buy stuff and how do you market that and how do you? How do you target those prospects there's so many moving pieces that you have to consider.
Speaker 3:It's like, yeah, I mean, there's so many different places you could be. It's like, well, okay, where do we start when we only have this small of a budget, right, and it's just doing it through a piece? I mean we're working with Microsoft and a well-known distributor at the moment on a lot of migration, so helping partners with that migration from either GP and or SL or NAV to BC, because that's a big area that Microsoft is focused on. So there's funding that we get that helps the partners. We're working through that distributor to actually help with that migration. So making sure that we're writing content that actually starts to bring that partner that really, in some cases, has not been doing any marketing for the last X number of years now trying to bring them to the forefront or at least try to focus on that. They've got a group of customers themselves. How do we get those pulled over? We've got to put stuff aside publicly but we're really using that to actually talk to their existing customer base. So, yeah, there's a lot of moving parts and I think, again, we could pull this back as well.
Speaker 3:To like the community it's like being so entrenched in the community. We get to hear because we're working every day. Yes, we're hearing what the customers we're seeing what's working, but we're also entrenched in the community, which gives us a good feel of what is happening. It's like, hey, I mean, I've talked to you guys, but at the same time, what are you seeing right? Okay, do we not that we want to steal and take away what's been successful for you guys? But how can we? Because at the end of the day, it's how can we maybe take advantage of some of that ideas and bring that in? But the bottom line is that the more that we can make if we're focused on dynamics, the more that we make dynamics the number one, it's going to help everyone. Even if we hypothetically stolen an idea that someone else is finding successful, that's helping in the long run. It's not stealing.
Speaker 2:It's not Well. There's a couple of points there. One I agree with you when I say it over and over you can listen to many episodes. If the product does well, we all do well.
Speaker 3:And your second point.
Speaker 2:No, it's true because the ERP space is large because of the need. It's small because of the products which there are a wide range of products and if you can define and call what you would call ERP. But if you want Business Central, if Business Central is your core or the power platform, I'll just say the D365 stack for the sake of the conversation. If that is your core, if there's a lot of exposure to it, go back to the AI searches where the product will come up for those that are looking for it. Then they need to find someone to source it for them.
Speaker 2:If it's a successful invisible product, you have more opportunity to have that customer move over to use your services and you will never be the only one to know or do something, Because if you do something well and it's successful, others will try to replicate that in some fashion. We have look at all the automakers we have. You don't just have one automaker. You don't have just one truck maker, because somebody made a truck and everyone said, oh, a truck looks cool, let's make a truck of our own with a slight variation or a slight difference from the other one, and it takes a lot for people to accept the fact that you will never be the only one, and if you are, it will not be long.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, I mean you can take that down into a lot of things we end up liking certain brands, right? I mean, take a pair of sneakers. Right, some people are gonna like this brand over this brand because they like the brand or because it's connected to some sports person or or whatever, right? So the end of day is, even if the two things hey, they keep my feet dry or they let me run, I don't know right, they let me walk they still do the same thing, but they're just different. I mean, it is what it is, but again, it's a lot more crowded today. We've just got to get out there and stand out from that crowd, and that's one of the things we try to do.
Speaker 1:So let's say, for example, as a new partner or ISV that's getting into the dynamic space, one of the things that you had mentioned earlier is that they have limited budget. So what is what would be the? Where would I put that money for someone that's small, that's trying to get into the dynamics community like where do you, where should they focus?
Speaker 3:It's a hard one to fully answer, but I would say I like to take them down. To be honest, down the thought leadership side, I really think in a day, thought leadership is really key. I think that's one area that we tap in a lot, and it's not just writing a blog, but writing it more from a thought leadership concept. Now, because we've produced that piece of content, now we can use it in multiple places.
Speaker 2:Define thought leadership.
Speaker 3:So one is really talking. I would say it's like talking about the problems that a client is having and showing your expertise in that space.
Speaker 2:Excellent.
Speaker 3:How you're solving it, not talking about BC. I mean, there's no harm in doing it, but don't write a sales piece.
Speaker 2:I understand. So you're not talking about BC's functionality.
Speaker 3:You're talking about your expertise to solving problems cc's functionality you're talking about your expertise to solving problems utilizing business central correct and you may bring a little bit in. It's like this is how it can do it, but not in a sales way. I understand. I think it's it's.
Speaker 2:I'm repeating it in brad speak just because if I can absorb it then at least I understand it and hopefully it helps those that may not understand it, but everybody else probably does and it's just me. But right it's. It's explaining how you use the tool, what the tool can do, but how are you going to use the tool to solve the problem?
Speaker 3:it's right, it's, yeah, it's really there's a challenge out there. Right, there's a common issue. We're going to go out there and explain how we've solved that issue in more of an educational piece than a sales piece. Right, and taking it deeper. At the end of the day, it's not just writing one article talking about multiples right, you could talk about thought leadership. It's like let's just take mig multiples right, you could talk about thought leadership. It's like let's just take migrations right.
Speaker 3:At the end of the day is, what are you missing? Right from moving from GP to BC? Right, I mean, we could tap into that. There is less and less possibly ransomware happening when the product's in the cloud compared to when it's on-prem, and right, so you can get a little bit more into the security side and the benefits there and how that had. If a client had moved from and they had done it in a timely manner or Then the other day, they probably wouldn't have got a ransom attack on their on-prem if they'd done that, but as soon as they moved they were able to, they kept getting, still getting attacked, but they never. No one got in because it was in the back. Just trying to think of a good example there or right.
Speaker 3:So it's that talking way, or there is something in manufacturing, right, if you're going again this, I think this is the change we're starting to see as well. If we go back right in time, when we used to sell ERP, we didn't care so much yes, we did, but we didn't care so much. Yes, we did, but we didn't care about the vertical that we were attaching it to, right? So the end of the day is a lot of clients who, historically, they may have a lot of verticals within. They don't have tons of people in one vertical. They seem to be all over the place, right, it was really just take, I've got some customers in healthcare, I've got some in financial, I've got some in manufacturing, some in distribution. That's changed in the model we do today. If we're really focused on professional services, we don't want to talk about manufacturing. We got to talk about how we're solving those problems in the professional services side.
Speaker 1:Okay, just to circle back, just to close the loop on where your money should be going, based on your budget, is really to spend time on the thought leadership component, where you're putting content, you're solving problems, not primarily just focusing on your product that you're just selling. Selling this product is being part of that conversation. In this case, maybe going to a community event where you may be speaking to get your name out there and then at that point, to get some visibility. To me, I think that's important, as someone that may be starting into the dynamic space is joining these community events and trying to get some speaking sessions as a starting point, depending on your budget that you have.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think there's one other area on that, chris, that I would add as well, and I probably should have said it first before. I said thought leadership is your foundation. What is your foundation? Your website is. Your foundation, right At the end of the day, is you can write all this thought leadership, but their event, the client, prospective client is at some point going to go and research you.
Speaker 3:And, let's put it polite, If you have a crap website, it's probably going to turn them off. Especially, again, let's go back to verticalization. If you have a crap website, it's probably going to turn them off. Especially, again, let's go back to verticalization. If you have nothing talking about professional services on there, you're probably not going to bring them in. So it's making sure that foundation is right in the first place, and there's a lot of sites out there that are not like that and we tend to. Historically, we could get away with that. Now you really need to do that.
Speaker 3:I think of one client we were working with and then they took some stuff in-house and they went off and did a Google ad campaign and then they wondered. They came back to us and said well, can you analyze this, because it's not producing any leads directly. They were getting people to the site, but it wasn't converting. So the ad was really good, but the messaging once they got them to their site did not match up to what they were trying to say. They were doing no right. The customer left or the prospect left at that point. So, at the end of the day, your website is your foundation. And again, if we go back to searching searches, at the end of the day Google and even AI they're searching out there. And if that foundation, foundation, that website, is not correct I'm thinking of a better word, I can't think of it yet but if it's not there and it's not built correctly, it's not going to come up with the searches either. Well, I appreciate you bring that up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sorry, brad. Uh, I appreciate you bring that because people don't realize that, like you said, you know you're speaking about, about a problem and you have a solution. They're going to research you and remember the behavior changed. Now it's no longer you know, they're going to research you and look you up and get all the information. That's weird. And look at all the information.
Speaker 2:Chris, you need to shut that off when you're doing these things. I do need to shut that off.
Speaker 1:I have to do like, maybe just do a thumbs up there, but because if you don't have that foundation you made a good point, john is that co-pilot and AI is going to look at your stuff in a way for you to be another avenue to be found at the same time. So it has to match. You're right, it goes back to.
Speaker 2:You have to have a proper representation of who you are and what you are and you're saying on your website. So that's what it is is your message has to match who and what you are, instead of thinking that people just know who I am. But I take it a bit further and it draws back to the community. I think you also need to have a presence elsewhere other than just your website, so you have the visibility. Presence elsewhere other than just your website, so you have the visibility.
Speaker 2:I try to use the analogy all the time and Chris has heard me say it probably countless times he needs more than his hands and his toes and probably the trees in his backyard. People have a need and a problem they're trying to solve. You're not going to create the problem for them, and what I mean by this is I need a plumber when I have a problem with my plumbing, who am I going to call? I'm going to call. Probably I'm going to look it up, I'll find someone's name, but I'll also remember the truck that I saw driving down the street every time I went to the store, because subconsciously, that name's going to be there, because I'm going to feel that I see them everywhere, so I'm going to feel that they have a presence that they're all over the place and they're servicing people because they're all over the place.
Speaker 1:So I take it they're driving around.
Speaker 2:Right, well, they're driving. Well, exactly, I mean, they're going to places. So I think many discount in 2025 and take it back to the community having some sort of presence. Elsewhere people will go. Oh, I saw John, he talked about this. I have a problem with that. I'm going to call him versus. I'm looking at John's website and it says that he implements software. But okay, he implements software, but how does that help me? It's almost figuring out a way to articulate and demonstrate you can solve and help someone's problem, because I am not calling an electrician to fix my toilet.
Speaker 3:So I'll give you an example of myself to do with what you just said. Give you an example of myself to do with what you just said. So there is being I've been trying and it's a lot of it's based on the stuff I'm writing at the moment is being, for the last couple years, trying to change the perception of people thinking that all I do is social media and let's take that I'm an expert in social media.
Speaker 2:Oh, you can help me out. I have some questions. Can you help me out?
Speaker 3:Right. So, yeah, I can help you out, but let's take it back. How did I get there, right? So let's roll back to that. And this goes and it goes into the community as well here how did we get there?
Speaker 3:So, when I joined Data Masons to run their channel, I started realizing, hey, I've just put myself in a situation. I don't like cold calling. It's not my thing, I don't like it At the end of the day, today I could probably do it, but back then I just couldn't do it. So I turned to LinkedIn. So we're talking now when I left them. Them was over 10 years ago, so prior to that. So we're talking about 14, 15 years ago. I turned to LinkedIn as my way. And LinkedIn back then everyone thought of it as more as a resume board and that's all it was Prior to even that catch word that we use today social selling. I was doing that 14, 15 years ago and I used LinkedIn to build my reputation up and get Data Masons name out through that as well. Where did that lead to for? Into the community.
Speaker 3:And it goes back to your pieces of being out there and talking. Yeah, data Masons was getting sessions to talk about EDI, but that was because they were sponsoring, not because they were getting picked to talk about it. But I was getting picked to actually go and talk about social media to other partners to say hey, or ISVs to say you need to start looking at it. So we started sharing what? Basically education about what was working for us and how to be successful with it. You can argue and say why didn't you do that? It was outside of what you did. It brought in someone warm because they trusted me so I could bring in a partner. I could bring in, say, the two of you.
Speaker 3:You were back then right, what is he doing? How is he using LinkedIn? I don't want to. I want to go and listen to how he's using it to drive business. Right Now, I've got you, you hooked into trusting me. Maybe now we can have a conversation about EDI, right, and how you guys could sell it right For us through your customers. Anyway, trying to get. But then that snowballed into Microsoft, then catching on to it and having me speak at events like the WPC Inspire event and keep on going with that. I mean convergence, I mean so there we go back in time, right. So some of the old conferences which are around.
Speaker 2:I remember convergence.
Speaker 3:Yep, I was invited to go and talk about how to use social to drive business through either an ISB or a partner, how to find customers, but I took it to another level. So when I got to places like Inspire and WPC, I was out there also actively I'd sit in a keynote. I don't do it today because I think I just exhausted myself. Back then I would sit in a keynote and I would basically tweet every single message I saw come up on the screen that whoever was speaking was talking about. This is one of my claims to fame. I love Multiple inspires.
Speaker 3:I got shut down by Twitter because it thought I was a spammer, because the volume of messaging I was putting out in the time period was so great and it was basically it was all manually Like I said it was. When I look back to it, it's like gee, they would shut me down for like 10, 15 minutes and even Microsoft tried to talk to. This was before the Elon days was trying to talk to Twitter and say can we not have this person shut down because they're better? Anyway, roll on a little bit to that. Within the conferences and we've seen this right they had a leader board to do with social media of what was being said For two, three years in a row and they kept trying to change their algorithm to give others.
Speaker 3:I was always start at top of that leader board, right? And what that was a way was to stay top of mind. I've always believed that you have to stay top of mind. It goes back to leadership as well writing content, just keeping that mindset. And Brad, you bring up that good point, right. If I keep seeing that plumber truck when I do need a plumber, I'm probably going to think about that. I think of it in a different way, right. I'm thinking of buying a new car. Do I buy a BMW or an Audi or whatever? If I keep seeing more about the Audi, I'm probably going to lean to that. It doesn't matter how much it's, just it gets into our psyche and you also start comparing all others to that Audi.
Speaker 2:It's a strange psychology that many don't understand, because even without doing anything, for lack of air quotes I love air quotes, everybody loves air quotes but even not doing anything, besides having good advertising driving down the street, in essence, at some points you can become the de facto standard that people compare against. Even if you get the deal or not, you still get brought into there when people weigh you as something, this whole social media presence. I have so many questions for you about that. We'll have to have next Tuesday. Is it next Tuesday?
Speaker 3:We're going to skip a session.
Speaker 2:We're going to skip a session and we're going to have a private conversation, because I have some questions and struggles and it's just the way that I think about some of the social media stuff and I'm going to pick your brain. I'm just letting you know.
Speaker 1:Now really quick. Then it sounds to me that you know, based on just the story you've given John, so you know, people start to trust you, right, because you're talking about a problem and you have a solution that may not be. You know people start to trust you, right, because you're talking about a problem and you have a solution that may not be. You know you're talking about. You had a speaking session about social media, but then you're doing EDI solution, right? So is it more important now, from a relationship aspect, to have your own personal brand at the same time, right, because you're speaking, you're talking about other things. But then, like, I'm going to trust John, I'm going to trust Brad, because I've seen him speak about something and then I happen to have something. I'm going to ask him hey, is this something that you can help, because I trust you? So I'm curious about your take on that. Is that important now that you have a personal brand?
Speaker 3:Let's define right now that you have a personal brand, let's define right. Let's define because we know there's a lot of companies out there that struggle with having someone that becomes a personal brand with inside their organization and takes in their minds. Right, senior management takes away from the organization that they're working for. There there is a conflict. I would say I probably did go through that at some point with Data Masons, because I know that people thought I was actually a co-owner for a period of time but I never was. To me today, I think there is a balancing act.
Speaker 2:I thought it was your company at one point, just to be honest. I wish it was when they sold for $100 million. I thought it was your company at one point, just to be honest, I wish it was.
Speaker 3:When they sold for $100 million, I wish it was. But even that, I would have taken just a million and I'd be happy.
Speaker 2:I would have taken a penny.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I think, at the end of the day, chris, I think it is important to find and have and let people that can be out there and help you from a voice, and we want to call that thought leader, whatever you want to call it Right, I think it's beneficial to have. It gets you out there. I think what I like is also is it sometimes opens the door up to the soft approach, right? I mean mean even things like this podcast right at the end of the day, me talking is that really directly helping your business? You can argue and say, well, we put a lot of time in it. Does it really indirectly? It probably does, because it brings attention. It brings people in that want to listen to the conversation and start to trust you. So I think trust comes in a different ways. It's not always about it goes back to that thought leadership and what I said about let's not always try to keep selling the product, to sell our expertise and what we're talking about and things like that.
Speaker 3:So, yes, I believe it is important, but there is a balance as well to look at and I think some and again I'll probably get slapped, but they're probably never gonna be my customers anyway, some of the partners out there or some execs who don't believe in it, start looking at changing your tune because it really will help you in the long run.
Speaker 3:If you've got someone that's willing to go out there, support them because I think in the long run it will help. And then, going back to that content development, whenever we go in and we want to do a thought leadership with the organization that can be, we work with them and say, okay, who is going to be that thought leader? Is that going to be you as the CEO, or is it going to be this other person that's the VP of sales, or is it the VP of technology or someone else? Right, who is the person that we need the customers, prospective customers or even customers to trust, who they can relate to? So I think, at the end of the day, it is in. I think in this day and age, we have to do that, but balance it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I agree there is a fine balance there, because when you say thought leadership, that comes to my mind about okay, well, you know you're putting that content together, you know, and it's you, that's your kind of your personal perspective, and you're putting content about thought leadership and things like that. So, yeah, I think it's a fine line, but at the end of the day, you are the one that's putting that effort into it. It does carry you.
Speaker 3:it does carry with you as you move on to something else right, but if you're, you're and I also look at that is people leave because of a reason thank you, right, thank you because they're unhappy with where they are. Can you repeat that people leave because of a reason, because they're probably unhappy, not because of what, because they want to go out there and be topped off at the end of the day? Is you continue, you will reap the benefit from it, from an organization that that is so important it's I.
Speaker 2:I love what you're and I could talk with you about this for hours, and that is an important message. A lot of times, individuals may have a different approach, thinking I want to hold someone so they can't leave, and it's better to have a beneficial or friendly relationship. Keep people happy. They'll stay happy. They'll stay. They will not leave because if they feel, if they're happy with whatever it is it products, service, relationship if they feel they're getting something from it right, selfishly in a sense.
Speaker 2:I mean, ultimately, all relationships come down to what can I get from it. And what can I get from it Doesn't have to be what are you giving me, because you could also be giving me enrichment, you could be giving me happiness, because our conversations are enlightening. So that's what. When I say getting something from a relationship, it doesn't have to be financial or in the sense of using, but everybody's relationship, even your personal relationship. You're getting something from it either, whether it's even down to joy, but that's one of the most important things with building relationships People will stay with you employees, customers, whatever you call them if they're happy with you, regardless of what's out there. And people will call them, they'll come up with searches, they'll see other things. Trying to hold them will build animosity, because then they'll figure out can I leave? Oh, they're trying to keep me in. They're not letting me leave because people want that freedom to choose. It's, it's part of who we are, you know right, I like to.
Speaker 3:I like to put it another way as well, brandon. People buy from people. They don't buy physical products. Right, they want to build that trust and the the other day having someone there, I take it back and if she does listen to this, maybe Mary Myers would like this analogy. Right, and I'm going to put it back as I think I love Mary.
Speaker 3:Right, I think she's doing an amazing job out there as well. And, at the end of the day, as I look at it, I think back in the days we used to do a ton of business on the golf course right, it didn't go away, but it slowed down a lot. It was not used. I look at this as what we're doing is like the old days, but electronically right, using tools like LinkedIn maybe, or whatever. At the end of the day, you building relationships, which is all trust, right, and that was happening. It didn't matter about what the products it's. It sort of goes back to is who you know or what you know. It's not always what you know, it's who you know. It's how you got to where it is and we're trying to get that out.
Speaker 3:Um, so I put it down. But I think the golf course is coming back and there's a ton of businesses going on there. But I do look at like LinkedIn sometimes as the electronic version of the golf course. I'm going to put myself as just out there, right, why did I reach out to you guys to be on your podcast and luckily, hey, you got me on here. It's because I felt over that. I look back at the last couple of years and thinking, yeah, I try to stay top of mind, but I need to be in other places. So I'm going to put my hands up and be selfish and say, and guys, well, maybe I won't put this one out there because he's just admitted what he wants to be on here, but because I needed to put.
Speaker 2:We'll edit that out. So keep telling us, we'll just edit it out, right.
Speaker 3:It's to elevate, it's to back to what I used to do and I feel like, for me personally, I've dropped off a little bit of being out there as, I'll say, a top dog because of some things I've done. But then I also could look back. It's like I retired off of the directions board last year after being on there for 10 plus years. So the end of the day is that had me. I suppose you could argue and say, okay, I didn't look at it like this personally, but it elevated me right all the time because people would see me there. I was part of the board. I was always at the front. I'd be up on the stage when they introduced who were the volunteers right that, or I was part of the board. I was always at the front. I'd be up on the stage when they introduced who the volunteers right that, or I was on their website. That is not happening. So you have to look at these things and evolve. But going back to where we were going is 100% is if you've got someone inside the organization is willing to be your top dog and being willing to go out there and do a podcast or whatever, as long as it doesn't take away 100% of their day-to-day job. So if they're generating business, don't squash it. Look at supporting it and maybe, yeah, help it in a way.
Speaker 3:I was trying to think of another example. Years ago there was a partner that I was talking to, the CEO. It's like we're struggling to get the team to write blogs. Right. We know we need to write them. Marketing can't do all of it. We want the team internally to write, but we've got some great minds minds but they don't want to write because they're being told that they have to make their billable hours. So instead we came up with the plan is like why don't we include into the billing billable hours that if they write a blog, that counts to their billable hours? So, hypothetically, if they write a blog, it checks off two hours of their billable hours. They've got to do that week and what they found is that that changed the mindset and they ended up actually getting one person on the consultant team who ended up writing all the time and they didn't want to lose him from the billables. He still doing the billables. He was actually billing more because he was writing as well.
Speaker 2:Take it all the way back to a couple points, but it is to the point you're saying, because, also, that same person that's doing that content is also learning more. Because if they're writing content, yes, and that doesn't have to be the content, that's the latest and greatest, most complicated it could be another way to use customers and ship to addresses and business central, for example, to bring it back. To go back to your golf course it's another thought that I say to people and the reason why this is Brad psychology, one-on-one on how I can claim to think that I just know things. But the golf course is a good place and a lot of business happens at golf course, just like at the networking events at some of these conferences. And it's not because of the networking event, because you're having a drink, because some people go to those events and do not drink. You know we had one.
Speaker 2:We were together recently, I had mocktails and I was talking with everybody. But what it is is everyone's in a different environment. They feel more relaxed. They don't feel like it's a sales pitch. I feel like I'm sitting in there talking with John as a person about my problems, about what he can do, about what he's done, what he's seen, and it's not a sales pitch and it's not an environment where I want your business. It's. Hey, let me just build trust, because relationships all come down to trust. I'm going to build trust through that conversation because we're in a relaxed environment, we're open to be more receptive and now I want to work with John because I now have trust in him, because I get to know him as a person. I feel, in my opinion, I feel in this world of AI, go back to what we said before, say it a different way, to sort of repeat ourselves. I think relationships are going to be the most crucial part of business, even with AI doing all these other things.
Speaker 2:Because, we are a communal species and we still will need to have that connection. As much as we think we can do everything alone, you still need that external stimulation from another person.
Speaker 3:Right and I mean I and I'll get a little personal here I deep down, I'm a very shy person. People are going to laugh now. It's like, damn, he's not a shy person, he's out there. But I am Back in the days.
Speaker 3:I'd be that person that if someone said, hey, you're going to go to a conference, I'd go and stand in the corner or find a way to get out of the door as quick as I could because I don't want to go and mix with people. But over the years I changed that Social actually helped that because it built trust and et cetera, et cetera. But at the end of the day is, yeah, I mean conferences really help At the end of the day. I've gone through and I've sort of tried to coach people as well. It's like, hey, at the end of the day I always looked at it as being I want to be the last man standing or the last person standing let's get this politically correct but last person standing in the room because you don't know what's going to happen. But it gives me an opportunity.
Speaker 2:I think you can say last man standing now in the United States, yeah okay, that's right.
Speaker 3:Good, hey, but I'll still say last person.
Speaker 2:No, I understand. I just had to throw that in there just because it's who I am.
Speaker 3:Yep, so it's building that, as I said. Look, it's not also about going out there and getting from. The plotly shitfest in the day is. I know that I remember closing or basically getting a massive opportunity at like one o'clock in the morning because I sat there. But I've been talking to that person on and off over a period of time at different conferences and we just happen to sit in the bar together talking and suddenly it just came out they said okay, we want to work with you.
Speaker 3:But I mean tying in it's like I've always believed in the community. I mean to tie back into that a little bit is when did I get involved in the community? That's probably a good question I'll ask myself. Right, and it goes back to the data. So we all know about Summit Dynamics Communities. I know there's other events, like DynamicsCon, which I believe in. I believe in all the community stuff. Have I been to everything? No, it's challenging, it's a big expense to try to be everywhere, but I actually was at the. I always say it was at the real first ever Dynamics Community Summit. Technically there was one before where they sat around a table to work out how it was going to pull together as a small group but I went to the first ever one that was out in I think it was Bellevue, out that way in the Seattle area and I remember being there with no, it wasn't with data masons, it was with bottom line technology, with the Crankform product.
Speaker 3:We were there and I remember as if someone we were in the hallway, if someone was talking to you and then on the other opposite table someone was talking as well. It was a struggle to get through that's back. So that's how long I sort of been going, I think. Out of all the summits I've only ever missed two because of personal reasons. So I've pretty much been to every single one. I will give a shout out. I know he's not involved anymore, but I'll give a big shout out to Andy Hafer, because when I did leave Data M's I was in transition and that was right around summit and I was talking to him and said, look, I'm probably not going to make it. I'm in transition, I don't have the funds. And now I look back. I was like I should have put that as a priority, but I didn't look at it. I'm still working out. Am I going out on my own? Am I going somewhere else? And he turned around and said to me hey, you are coming. He said, don't worry about the cost, I'm picking up your hotel. I'm picking up, just pick up your flight. Basically, everything else is paid. You just do a few hours for me on the because I was helping him a little early on with their social media, trying to get that working for them. So I gave them a lot of advice. So it was a trade-off Basically. We traded some time. So I always give them credit and that really elevated at the time being there, helped me build my business.
Speaker 3:But the community is really a key. I mean you go back both of you talked about especially Chris, you were talking about being a speaker. I've always tried to look at being a speaker at every event and trying to bring a topic that makes sense, that the audience wants to hear about. But it's not always about. To me it's not selling, it's about educating. That comes number one. So many people say to me all the time it's like you don't talk about yourself or what you do. I'm not there for that, I'm there to teach and that becomes my priority.
Speaker 3:Um, so I probably did on your podcast. I did a little bit more selling with myself than I probably normally do, but community is really important. Um, I said I've been on the board for directions for over 11 years. I mean, that was when I started. We were down in the 500s, um, lower than 500 attendees, and when I left we're like 1200 plus people, I mean, and a massive event. Um, I'm, I mean, I'm proud of the community. It wasn't just me, but the whole community came together.
Speaker 3:That event is amazing, um, and I think it can grow. I mean, if this community keeps on growing as it should, it could easily be a 2,000 person event. But at the same time, it doesn't feel like that when you're there. There is so much involvement with people. And if we take like Summit last year, I remember making an effort, didn't want to count, I went and sat on a lunchtime. I sat down at the table, happened to be all NGUs and somehow we got talking and I started asking the question did you migrate to BC or you're on BC? Yes, did you migrate there? No, we were new and I learned of all the people I met. There was actually more BC cells than there was migration happening. So again, community is really key.
Speaker 2:It's such a large community, but it's so small at the same time. And to go back to your point, I don't take this as you selling yourself. I take it as you sharing your experience and knowledge so others can learn and maybe take a look at what they're doing. And we learn by experience, either hearing and listening to others' experience or by our own. It's how we learn and we go through.
Speaker 1:It's giving back because I've shared this story in the past where, you know, I was on that other side. I was the one that was sitting in the very back listening to a speaker and sharing their experience. And you know, as I progressed with my career, I want to give back because I learned so much from others. I learned so much from the community. You know, the one thing I can do is give my time back and so speaking and just educating and that's the focus which education? I'm not trying to sell myself, sell anything else. I just want to share what I've learned throughout my career and hopefully somebody that's sitting back there could feel the same way and it kind of repeats that cycle and hopefully seeing them up there in in teaching.
Speaker 1:You know a session and going back to the community, it's importance of communities that you brought up directions and you know fun fact I'm I'm working with mary on the marketing side. You know I'm I'm coming from a tech background, so similar to you, john. You know I'm shy, I'm a person. I think every tech person, every it person, I don't know a little bit more shy, but you know, being part of that, seeing it come together, is impressive and now we have directions in Las Vegas coming up, so that is going to be fun and we're looking to see everybody joining us there. Especially for smaller partners or ISVs that are getting to the space, this is the event to go, because then you get to see how everyone's doing it and learning from everybody and how to market yourself.
Speaker 3:And I think I've got a good analogy as well on directions right At the end of the day is when the partners, when the competing partners because technically they're still competing right they're all trying to close maybe BC business. As soon as they walk through the doors of the hotel for that event they are no longer competitors. Everyone there is to share with everyone else. It goes back to a comment we made earlier on Brad right, which was at the end of the day, is the more we share with each other, the greater this community can be, the greater we can drive more business. At the end of the day that truly happens at that event. I'm not saying it doesn't at other events, but the whole competitive thing goes out of the window as soon as we go out the door.
Speaker 3:At the end of the event we're competitors again. But while we're in that few days we're there, we are not. We're all sharing and I think that is really the key. So the other day I would say to anyone it's too late now, but go out there, try, go and put a session out there. People want to hear. I mean, I sat on running the, the sessions, basically the content, for a few years with directions and I was always looking for new voices because, yes, I want to hear, it's great to hear Brad and Chris. They've got great stuff. They're always bringing fresh content. But there's God knows other people out there that also have knowledge and experience.
Speaker 2:Let's bring them to the did you just say don't go to my sessions?
Speaker 3:no, I wasn't saying don't go to your session. I'm looking for that. I can't go to your session next week because it's all at the same time as mine, so that's what I meant.
Speaker 2:I understand what you meant. I listen, I have to throw some of that stuff in there.
Speaker 3:It's just part of how I am with the conversation but, yeah, go out there, um be it, but support it. I mean I'd love to be at every single event. I mean I I just at the end of the day as a business owner, and I'm sure many others is, we only have so much of a budget right at the end of the day is do I feel a benefit to be at all the events I could think of? Let's just call out three main events. I think of right Directions from a partner, isd standpoint, doug. Right Dynamics Con, that's going to be in what's it? May, which is going to be a mix range users and partners. And then we've got Summit later on. Yes, there's the roadsh and there's the regionals and the local meetings that happen. It's tough to be at all those places.
Speaker 2:It is.
Speaker 3:So you have to pick and choose. I mean I'd love to be at DynamicsCon this year. I just can't put it in the budget and plus there's a lot of other stuff we've got going on internally. We just can't be there and we'd love to be there. For many years I've always wanted to go out to directions, and yet it keeps getting put off because other things come up.
Speaker 2:It is a challenge of picking which event to go to because of what you had mentioned, it's sometimes not financially feasible, but also time-wise and logistically. I'm with you. I've been trying to get to Europe for several years, but some of these events take more to go through. So it is a challenge sometimes to pick the one that you feel will provide you the most valuable value.
Speaker 2:Excuse me, but it's also important to understand and accept that you can't go to the mall and I like your notion of going out and presenting, speaking and doing sessions and if you can't make it to one of the larger sessions, there's the road shows and the meetup type sessions that are a smaller, local, one day, half day type events that, if they're in your area, give it a shot Because it's same type of people but a smaller crowd and maybe a little less pressure. But also one thing I know is I've been into many sessions with as first time speakers and everyone who's in the sessions with our wonderful community support everybody. Even if they see they're nervous or if they feel that there's a challenge, many others will just jump in and help and engage to help bring some lightness to the room and also help drive to make sure it's an effective session. So I'm with you. I think everybody should do it.
Speaker 3:And I think it's the end of the day, let's not just limit that right. And at the end of the day, I'm sure there's going to be end users that end up listening to your podcast right At the end of the day is. Also, think about being speakers. You actually, as an end user, bring a lot of knowledge from a different perspective. It's great and I really respect every partner ISV that puts their time and effort. But I think we need to have a little bit more end user. I know we see that a little bit more in the end user stuff. We won't see it at directions because end users are not allowed into the event. But at the end of the day, I think coming from the end user community really gives another perspective on things Because again, you can talk back. If you're a discrete manufacturing company that's gone through some challenges, through maybe implementation, or you have to do something with VC to do what you got for your business, I'm positive there are other end users in your same, in discrete manufacturing, maybe not making the same things as you who want to listen to how you solve those problems, because I guarantee they're also in those having those issues as well. So it does help.
Speaker 3:And again, community community right At the end of the day is just support it. And community we also I don't know, sometimes I feel like I mean you've got. The other side of it is MVPs, right At the end of the day. Mvps is another avenue on the community side. I think there's been a little bit of a I'm going to personally say what I hear out there is there's been a little bit of a bad rap, I think, on some of the MVPs recently. But again, at the end of the day, there is an opportunity for others to be out there who have the knowledge as well. So, mvps, I support you. I think you bring a lot and I know you guys he's also there as well. But at the end of the day, there are others out there who don't have their titles and know a lot of stuff and we need them to share as well. And it's not because they need to be an MVP, they just need to share as well. And it's not because they need to be an MVP, they just need to share.
Speaker 2:I like that. I like that. Well, mr John, I'd love to talk to you more about the community, so I think we'll have to follow up, but I do have a couple questions for you as we wrap this up. If you could give one or two tips for someone to help with their social media presence and I'm going to call you after because I'll send you a message I'm struggling on- something.
Speaker 1:I'm going to write this down.
Speaker 2:You should write it down, but if you could give one or two your choice tips of how someone could effectively increase their social media presence successfully oh my god put you in the spot it's funny because I'm just thinking about how I need to increase my social presence.
Speaker 3:That's all I'm thinking. It's like mine's dropped off because you get busy, I think it's. I mean my number one is like anything right is blocking time out on the calendar and do not go and replace it with something else. So hypothetically, say, okay, Friday afternoon between 4 and 5, I'm going to write my messages for the next week. So hypothetically, say, okay, Friday afternoon between four and five, I'm going to write my messages for the next week and then schedule them all. Right, I think at the end of the day there's that piece.
Speaker 3:I think we don't do that enough. I mean I know that I'm beating myself up, trying I've got to do more. I mean I do write, but again I've got to do more. I know I've got to do more. I mean I do write, but again I've got to do more. I know I've got to do more and I used to do more, but we get busy. But I think as soon as I put stuff on the calendar I tend to get better because it locks that time. Now, probably for the first, I'm going to say period of time. You're going to keep canceling that, but over time. Try not to do that.
Speaker 3:Who was I? I think it was someone outside the community. They basically put everything they do to the point of I get up in the morning and my calendar from the morning to I go to bed is what I use. It's like I'm going to the gym between 7 and 8. I'm going to put that on my calendar From this to this. At 12 o'clock noon I'm walking the dog for 15 minutes just so I get away from my computer, Lock it down on the calendar and I think at the end of the day it puts you in that mode that you have to do that task in it.
Speaker 2:I like that and it becomes a habit.
Speaker 2:And once it becomes a habit, it becomes easier, as you had mentioned I think that's important and also I think others need to respect other people's calendars, even if they put some of those events on there just to remind them, Because I know I do that on some of my things and I'll put down. Like you said, I put down lunch. I'll put down different things because I want to make sure I take a break. For example, the scheduling of the post is a great tip. I appreciate that, and then focusing and taking the time to do that. I have a follow-up question to that, because I appreciate that feature on both LinkedIn and Twitter. Do you think that those platforms treat the content?
Speaker 3:that's scheduled differently as how it may appear to the audience. So I heard you use the word Twitter. First of all, I'd say to you don't even bother anymore with Twitter.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:It doesn't help our business. I've run so many analytics for the last few years on that no one is getting any traction on it that makes sense to even bother to post on it, I think. Going back to the schedule, how do you do the scheduling? There are plenty of tools out there Hootsuite, buffer and all that that could schedule. I think what you'll find is that doing those tools will definitely downgrade you. I have not seen data to say that using LinkedIn's direct scheduling tool actually downgrades you. But again, what does it take to actually go in post, right? So again, put it on your calendar doesn't mean you can't write it ahead of time. Set yourself like it. Probably. You could probably put that message on in five minutes. So the end of day is test it, see how it works, you get better. But I, I, I we do a lot of scheduling for a lot of our clients, but we have started moving away from the scheduling tools and logging in directly to the account and scheduling there Excellent.
Speaker 2:So I think it's that.
Speaker 3:But I think I go back to the other pieces. Brad on messaging is Brad on messaging, don't just think about. If you're going to talk about a topic about acceptance testing, right, go and write it, not just one message. Write enough for maybe the next three months.
Speaker 2:Oh boom, I'm writing that down. See, see, right, this is good.
Speaker 3:Because what you also got to remember is what we saw today. If I saw a message from you today, okay that's great, but if I didn't see you pop on my feed with that message, I've never seen it. So it doesn't matter if you repeat I mean, I don't always like to repeat for Bidum, but it doesn't matter, you could bring it back if it's still a sense you can repeat. So what I'd like? So sometimes what I'd like to do with our clients is take a topic and write a handful of messages for that same topic and then we can start to schedule out and over time you're gonna see your schedule is getting full because you're going down further, but at the same time make sure you're tracking that in some spreadsheet or something so you know what slots you filled I love this and there will always be the first time for somebody to see everything and, as ed, you had mentioned correct, they won't always see it at the same time, and that even goes with content and sessions.
Speaker 2:Just to bring it back before we do wrap here, it's okay. It doesn't have to be a complicated topic either Because, as you had mentioned, you sat and talked with members of Summit. There are always new team members joining an organization that are new to Business Central. There are always organizations that are new to Business Central, so someone always is in a spot where they need to learn how to enter a sales order, for example. So just because you may have been doing it for 20 years or you think that everybody already knows how to use it, there is somebody else that's in their journey that hasn't learned that yet or doesn't know of all the features that they could have.
Speaker 2:So I appreciate everything you just said that this last couple minutes was powerful for me.
Speaker 3:My mind is blown again and what you just said about sessions. It was a really hard thing when I was running the sessions on direction right, the content, because the end of the day we'll see that session happening at all these other meetings. It's like, do we really want that session at directions as well? And you make a good point, is not everyone probably saw it? But at the same time we're trying to look for fresh content and it's a hard balance. Sometimes it's like and I even have that it's like. Sometimes it's like, okay, do I really want to see that same here, that same session being at five different events? But sometimes the audience is different, that's okay, yeah but I think you've got as content decision makers.
Speaker 3:You've got to know your audience. If you are getting a lot of overlap, then start to think about that. May not be the right thing, but I do think sometimes there is a little bit. I mean, I'll just put it bluntly there is sometimes that certain speakers constantly get chosen, but at the end of the day there is a lot out there. So let some of the newbies in there as well, because they can bring another insight or a better idea. Put them together with that other speaker thank you, topic I love yes, I love when you have more than one speaker.
Speaker 3:make it if it's a panel or having technically, let's just make you both happy. Have Chris and Brad together, right, doesn't need to be just Brad on his own, just Chris. Bring the two together. I know Chris. You've done sessions with others as well. I know Brad. At the end of the day, it benefits right. For the first time ever, I submitted a session with Mary Myers this year Excellent Right for directions. Now we'll see if it gets selected now because there is a hook, we could see something and it's like, okay, let's try a different approach. A lot of the sessions I put into directions were not just me on my own, they were with other people. That's awesome. That's more powerful, because now we just used the two of you and I know we want to close up. Here is Brad. You may have one perspective on the topic. Chris, you have another perspective. I can listen. When I have the two of you, I get the two sides and you have the audience's perspective. So now you have multiple perspectives.
Speaker 3:This is just one person, it's one sided.
Speaker 2:Can't agree with it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I can't agree more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can't agree more. No, I am a fan of co-presenting and if you listen to all the conversations I have with these committees and with other people, I would prioritize co-presenting for many reasons. One you had just mentioned a few points. One the dynamic in the room is often different because you have different perspectives, different personalities that can bring more out from the attendees.
Speaker 2:Two a lot of times they look at the session presenters saying, well, they're a seasoned presenter, with the assumption that maybe they're more comfortable, they know how to do it, they have experience. It's one of those things Everybody wants somebody with experience, but nobody wants to give someone with experience. So then, going with the co-presentinging, if you have somebody who's new, that may be a little nervous or apprehensive about trying it, put them with someone else that has done it and they can mentor them and coach them through it. Then you have two people in there. So even if they're not comfortable and they can do a small portion of it, they get the experience of doing those presentations. And that is why I think that you should almost anybody who's on a planning committee on any of these conferences that are worldwide. I would weigh those more as far as something we want because of those reasons and it brings more people in Totally.
Speaker 3:Yes, the only challenge you've got and this is the challenge and being on the other side of the fence and seeing it as an organizer the challenge you then have is how are we I'll use the word compensating the speakers, right? Some events give you a free pass. A free pass cost that vent money. Right, it's not cheap. I mean, some of the past directions was like just to have someone come in free was over a thousand dollars by the time you add. And that's just the ticket alone. Because of all the food and stuff like that, it it's crazy amount of money when you really look at it. So now you bring in two, do I give them free? Now I've doubled my money, right, double cost to have.
Speaker 3:So there is a balancing act it's a struggle. I I agree it's a struggle but at the end of the day, me personally, I would probably I mean, I love free tickets to get an event but I probably would say, hey, I'm okay paying half the tip price of ticket instead of the full if I can have and see more pounds but there's also the I.
Speaker 2:I understand the balance of it. I do understand there's a cost to it because the event. I know the cost that go into some of these events because people think a cup of coffee I could buy down the street for a buck, but in these events they're going to charge you $100 for a pot of eight cups. I understand the markup on it, but also you have better speakers and a better journey. See, I'm going to keep going back to this I'm all on this journey kick.
Speaker 2:Give an attendee a journey that they can follow, they feel they can get something out of it. You'll have more people who want to attend. So you build a they will come type thing in some essence. And I understand. I'm thankfully not involved in worrying about any compensation and nor am I saying any should be given. Thankfully not involved in worrying about any compensation and nor am I saying any should be given. I'm just saying from a presentation point of view, two presenters often yeah, I just wanted to put that out.
Speaker 3:Is it the other side of? The challenge that these organizers have, but I think we're all in agreement. Right, more panels, bring more speakers together.
Speaker 2:Let's share this wealth well for knowledge. I love the panels too, because it people can ask the questions.
Speaker 1:Solve my problem, I want to get well, it becomes a conversation right. That makes it easier for people to just, you know, listen in.
Speaker 2:I could talk about this stuff for days. But, mr john, we'll have to schedule another conversation to follow up on this.
Speaker 2:But we do appreciate you taking the time to speak with us today. Time that's spent we don't get back, and time is valuable. So anybody that spends time with us and shares their information with us, we're greatly appreciative, and we say that sincerely. In the meantime, if anyone would like to get in contact with you to learn more about the marketing services that you offer or anything else that you are doing within the community, what's the best way to get in contact with you to learn more about the marketing services that you offer or anything else that you are doing within the community? What's the best way to get in contact with you?
Speaker 3:go look us up on our website, marketeeringcom. That's one place to look at it. Or just come and find me on linkedin. Excellent john with j-o-n and not the H. That's another story for another day.
Speaker 2:Oh, we'll put that on the next one, that's not my full name.
Speaker 3:I shortened it and there is no H. If you put a H in it, you'll never find me. But just find me on LinkedIn. I mean, it's pretty easy enough to find me there.
Speaker 2:Excellent, and we do have guest bio pages now, so we'll put all of that information linked to this episode as well, so that it doesn't get in contact with you Again. I look forward to seeing you soon. I'll see you next week and I will pick your brain. Be ready.
Speaker 3:I'll be ready, all right, thank you so much have a good day, ciao, ciao.
Speaker 2:Catch you later Take care Bye. Thank you, chris, for your time for another episode of In the Dynamics Corner Chair, and thank you to our guests for participating.
Speaker 1:Thank you, brad, for your time. It is a wonderful episode of Dynamics Corner Chair. I would also like to thank our guests for joining us. Thank you for all of our listeners tuning in as well. You can find Brad at developerlifecom, that is, d-v-l-p-r-l-i-f-e dot com, and you can interact with them via Twitter, dprlife. You can also find me at matalinoio, m-a-t-a-l-i-n-o dot i-o, and my Twitter handle is matalino16. And see, you can see those links down below in the show notes. Again, thank you everyone. Thank you and take care.
