Dynamics Corner

Episode 352: In the Dynamics Corner Chair: The Importance of Asking 'Why' in ERP Implementations

• Jenn Claridge • Season 3 • Episode 352

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🍗🍂🏈 Which is better -- Canadian Thanksgiving or American Thanksgiving? Join hosts Brad Prendergast and Kristoffer Ruyeras in this latest episode of the Dynamics Corner as they sit down with Jenn Claridge to settle this debate, once and for all!


But that's not all we talked about. We tackled the real challenges of ERP implementations, covering the critical need for effective communication, understanding client requirements, and collaboration. We also highlight the importance of clear terminology to avoid requirement misunderstandings as you plan and execute an implementation.  

Jenn also shares her expert insights on:

🔑 Understanding current business processes for ERP success.

💡 Why subject matter experts are key to identifying essential features.

🔄 Carefully considering modifications to prevent ERP complications.

🔁 The role of feedback loops in successful implementations.

🕒 Involving the right people at the right time.

🌱 Not overwhelming users with too many options.

🤝 Using collaborative workshops and managing change from the start of a project.

🏫 The key difference between training and consulting. 

Watch here and see who won the Thanksgiving debate: 🇺🇸 or 🇨🇦?

Send us a text

#MSDyn365BC #BusinessCentral #BC #DynamicsCorner

Follow Kris and Brad for more content:
https://matalino.io/bio
https://bprendergast.bio.link/

Speaker 1:

Welcome everyone to another episode of Dynamics Corner. Who do you need? Who do I need for implementations? I'm your co-host, Chris.

Speaker 2:

This is Brad. This episode was recorded on 12-2, december 2nd 2024. Like how I did that, chris, here we are just finished up the Thanksgiving holiday. I am still full of cheer and food, and now we're coming into the Christmas holiday season, which is another cheerful and festive holiday season with lots of food. And before we venture into the month of December, we had the opportunity today to speak with this great guest about ERP implementations, what goes into an ERP implementation and how much information you should put into an ERP implementation. With us today, we had the opportunity to speak with Jen Clarich. Hello, Good afternoon. Hello, how are you doing? Good afternoon.

Speaker 4:

Good, how are you?

Speaker 2:

Very well, very well, I'm full still from Thanksgiving.

Speaker 4:

I can imagine. How was it?

Speaker 2:

It was amazing. All I did was eat, eat and eat. I know you don't have the opportunity to celebrate that up there.

Speaker 4:

We do, we just do it much much earlier. I'm usually doing it it well. The last two years I've been doing it with my closest friends and family at summit, so it's happened over the summit weekend.

Speaker 2:

So oh yeah, but but next year you can do that yeah yeah, next year it won't be wait a minute so I didn't have the opportunity to participate in the Canadian Thanksgiving with you.

Speaker 4:

That's right. That's right. We have to cancel this discussion now I was excluded from the celebration. I didn't send out the invites. Let's just be real clear on that.

Speaker 1:

What's the staple food for Thanksgiving or Canadian Thanksgiving?

Speaker 4:

Turkey, same turkey.

Speaker 1:

Oh, turkey yeah.

Speaker 4:

All the same stuff, are you?

Speaker 2:

You haven't learned. Canada wants to be the United States. So they said, oh, let's just oh I don't.

Speaker 4:

I don't think, so that I am not so sure of.

Speaker 3:

I think we are quite happy where we are especially lately yeah.

Speaker 1:

In the cold. Yeah, yeah especially lately.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, in the cold, yeah, yeah, we'll leave you guys in the cold, it's three degrees celsius.

Speaker 2:

It's not that bad. We have to do the translation. Three degrees celsius is 32 yeah, you do the math that it's like 60 almost almost freezing. No, 30, zero is freezing. So then I think you like double it and add 32, so so that's 36, and 32 is 38 degrees.

Speaker 4:

There you go. You figured out, I was just going to take a look and see what is it what?

Speaker 2:

is it Was I correct.

Speaker 4:

Let me see if I can change it quickly on my computer to Fahrenheit. I don't know how to change it. I just got a new computer so google it, chris.

Speaker 2:

Did you get it yet, chris?

Speaker 4:

you gotta bing it.

Speaker 2:

Oh wait, google see now she's trying to do like you gotta bing it.

Speaker 4:

Where's this any anything that?

Speaker 2:

we say she'll, she'll do the opposite just to keep it interesting.

Speaker 4:

Keep you on your toes that's it so.

Speaker 1:

Three right 37.4 38 degrees.

Speaker 4:

You were the one caught in a snowstorm. Last time you were caught in a storm or something me or Chris.

Speaker 2:

Chris was caught in a storm.

Speaker 1:

I was caught in a storm we had well recently. We had a power outage and we didn't have power for five days. Oh, that's crazy, so that's yeah, that's pretty crazy, because they're not used to having cyclones come through. We get windy weather, but not cycloneone, which is equivalent to a hurricane.

Speaker 2:

I don't I don't think it's a matter of them getting used to it or not. I think when you have destruction, a natural disaster, whether it be a cyclone, tornado or hurricane, I think we're just not used to picking up trees off of power lines fair enough.

Speaker 2:

I think fair enough it's not what caused it, it's how much damage was caused and what it takes to pick it up, but thankfully we're able to catch up again and I'm looking forward to it. And so just to go back to the Canadian Thanksgiving, because I never I see it on the calendar here and there or. I hear about oh, it's Canadian Thanksgiving, it happens, it does happen, it happens. What is the celebration for Canadian Thanksgiving if they're not copying in the United States?

Speaker 4:

So you guys go above and beyond, like with the parades and the football and everything. Like it's similar but not the same, like we're not as big on it, I would say. But we do the traditional thing. Like you get together with your family, you know there's turkey, there's ham, there's stuffing, there's mashed potatoes. Like you go around the table and you say what you've you're thankful for, right? So, of course, because I was at summit, I was thankful for co-pilot and sales agents and all the things. But normally it might be like my health or beautiful weather or whatever. But yeah, it's the same idea. You just get together with your family, you eat a ton of food. You have pumpkin pie with whipped cream oh, I love pie.

Speaker 2:

I had some good stuff green bean casserole, sweet potatoes I don't think I had. We had mashed potatoes. I don't think I ate them. I had turkey, I had ham, I had apple pie, I had apple crisp, I had cheesecake.

Speaker 1:

Oh, apple crisp is the go-to I had macaroni and cheese.

Speaker 2:

So you have everything I ate so much.

Speaker 4:

That's why he's still full, Chris.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you got leftovers. My stomach is sticking out still and if you press it it's hard. So that's how much food I have. But let's go back to it. Why do you celebrate Thanksgiving? And I'm still don't talk about being at Summit, because I'm still mad, because Chris and I would have crashed the party.

Speaker 1:

We're just thankful Is it Well, because Thanksgiving here has a history right. Yes, so what's the history of Thanksgiving for Canada? Like why Thanksgiving?

Speaker 2:

I honestly don't know.

Speaker 4:

I just show up to my mom because I don't like cooking. I don't know. The history is. My mother told me we had to celebrate. Yeah, you show up, you say what you're thankful for, you get along with your brothers. That's how it's always been that's funny that's funny.

Speaker 1:

That is that is funny. Well, you know what I skipped turkey this year did you actually went with. Just yeah, I skipped turkey. Turkey, it's a little tough to cook, uh, if you don't have an oven. I don't have an oven right now because just right now the kitchen, okay yeah, but and after this maybe we'll we won't do turkey we typically do ham but we did brisket this year and it's much better than turkey, because turkey gets pretty dry if you don't do it right. Smoke a turkey.

Speaker 4:

You can smoke a turkey. I've done smoked turkey before People. That was a big thing, right, deep fried turkey.

Speaker 2:

I saw those deep fried videos. I'm not deep frying anything.

Speaker 1:

Dangerous.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, so you don't normally. So what did you guys both do? You got together with your family, I assume. Yes, yes, yep, I got together with family.

Speaker 2:

Usually there's a lot of eating, a lot of drinking. I did not partake in the drinking because it affects my sleep and I'm focusing on my sleep.

Speaker 1:

And it retains food in your system longer.

Speaker 2:

Yes, it impacts you in many ways, but that's what yeah, same thing that you had mentioned, but we do it because we have a historical reason for it. Um, and depending upon how you look at the story. You know some, some, some look at it differently than others, but it's a historical reason for it. But it's the same thing, just eat. It is my favorite holiday of the year because there is no pressure. The only pressure is what do I bring, and what I mean by what do I bring? It's not like.

Speaker 2:

Christmas, Christmas a lot of people get anxious about because it's you know, do I buy a gift, Do I go to this person? Do I like a gift and you know there's getting together differently. This is the one holiday where it's just to eat and be married Get together.

Speaker 1:

Unless you're hosting. When you're hosting, it's pretty. It's a lot of pressure and stress because now you're going to set the table, depending on how many people you have.

Speaker 2:

Okay, now we're setting rules on it, okay. If you're hosting it's, it's not as fun, but if you're a participant, that's true but Brad doesn't host it, so he keeps it easy.

Speaker 1:

He's like I'm a guest.

Speaker 4:

I'm a guest only. I host enough podcasts that I don't need to host Thanksgiving as well.

Speaker 2:

Okay, I've done my part.

Speaker 4:

jen is my new best friend and I'm almost going to forgive you for not. Well, maybe by the end of this we can get there I'm not going to.

Speaker 2:

I still won't get over not being invited to summit thanksgiving because I didn't even know there was a community summit thanksgiving this year no, this isn't a real thing. Thanksgiving this is. I just went to summit in texas, that's it.

Speaker 4:

There was no, like I said, so you do you see how quickly things get started? I was at summit wow, well then you came. Thanks for saying hi.

Speaker 2:

Actually, now I'm mad at you wait, but you said you had thanksgiving while you were at summit no, I, I just considered that my Thanksgiving. Oh, I misunderstood what you were saying. I thought that you had got together with friends or counterparts while you were at Summit.

Speaker 4:

Everyone in Canada Canada side, my family, like they got together. I don't even know if they did actually, because we're kind of spread out now. But then I considered, because I didn't have any kind, I had to travel for Summit, so I just called that my Thanksgiving. So whoever I sat with for lunch that day, I said thanks. You know, what are you guys grateful for? And we made it our thing and I think they were actually all comedians.

Speaker 1:

So Thanksgiving in Canada is second Monday in October.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, it's much earlier than that. Well, we do it Thursday.

Speaker 2:

We do it the third Thursday or the last Thursday of the month.

Speaker 4:

It's always the Monday for us.

Speaker 2:

See, they're always trying, but why, chris? You know why? Because we need a. We know what you do, we know when it is, but why is it there? Well, I want to know why you guys, we know when it is.

Speaker 4:

But why is it there? Well, I want to know why you guys do it on a Thursday. Is it just so you can get the Friday off too? Justify the Friday off. Is this what I see? What's happening here?

Speaker 2:

Chris, you can look that up.

Speaker 1:

So I have to look this up why Canadians celebrate Thanksgiving. There's really no reason.

Speaker 2:

That's why you couldn't tell us.

Speaker 1:

Because there's no reason. That's what I figured. As far as I know, it says you're just giving thanks for the harvest and good fortune they've experienced in the past year. Right Now there are dates dating back in 1578. Someone landed in the bay in Robert Wolf Hall. Okay, Bobby. And they just had Hall.

Speaker 4:

Okay, bobby.

Speaker 1:

And they just had dinner.

Speaker 2:

Perfect.

Speaker 4:

That's so nice.

Speaker 2:

That's it All right.

Speaker 1:

In 1879, they officially name it as a national holiday.

Speaker 2:

When did the United States name Thanksgiving a national holiday, Chris.

Speaker 1:

Let's see. Well, let me finish. Canadians did 1879. The first Thanksgiving Day for Canadians is 1872. So yeah, so United States, I've got to look it up. Thanksgiving, let's take a look.

Speaker 4:

You should have had this prepared, Chris.

Speaker 2:

You had to know I know he's usually rather quick with the google or the chat gpt. That's where he has the name chris 1621 oh well, it's linked back.

Speaker 4:

So the see canadia, canadia, canadian was 1872 1879 so maybe, maybe that was like, hey, we could get a couple extra days off. Let's, let's have one of these thanksgivings, you know make it a national. On a monday, just so that they don't catch on to us well, you get a long weekend well, that's exactly it, but you guys get an extra long weekend because you do not.

Speaker 2:

Everybody has the friday off after thanksgiving. Most people will give float holidays and most people will take the day off, but it's not a a holiday the day after thanksgiving some places okay, let me take it back first.

Speaker 1:

Thanksgiving was thursday, november 26, 17.

Speaker 2:

Yes, that's why it's on Thursday.

Speaker 4:

Okay. So then you kept that tradition of keeping it as a Thursday. Correct, perfect. And because we just made ours up, we said hey, let's always get a long weekend, we'll do it on Monday, Perfect.

Speaker 1:

No, they said hey, the United States is doing it we should do the same thing.

Speaker 2:

The US is doing it. We should do the same thing. The us is doing it on thursday. They may or may not get friday off for a four-day weekend. Let us happen on monday. We really don't have a reason for it.

Speaker 4:

But if the us can pull off a long weekend, we can and it's worked out for clearly a very long time yes so as long as I've been around and I'm sure, a lot longer 21 years after you, you're only 21.

Speaker 2:

No, I didn't know that.

Speaker 4:

But the fact that you questioned that. Really, I'm gonna carry.

Speaker 2:

I'm thankful for that you should be thankful to that, and we're also thankful to speak with you today, because I had a lot of questions or topics or points in my mind that I wanted to speak with you. But before we do that, now that we have Thanksgiving out of the way and we know that you're 21, would you mind telling us a little bit about yourself?

Speaker 4:

Yeah, so my name is Jen Claridge. I'm the vice president of the ERP practice at Sabre. So we're a manufacturing vertical focus partner that focuses on the ERP implementations Business Central out of Canada. So we do mostly remote but we do all fixed fee in the manufacturing space. So I've been with Sabre since 2008. So you know close to my whole life.

Speaker 2:

That's what I was going to say, I mean you you must've been about. You know five.

Speaker 4:

You started working there I'm really I'm an overachiever. So, yeah, I've been here since 2008. So I started as a consultant we were actually doing a different ERP at the time and then I've just kind of through the jigs and the reels, worked my way through now. So, yeah, Excellent, excellent.

Speaker 2:

Which part of Canada are you in?

Speaker 4:

So I'm in the Niagara region but we actually, through COVID, we got rid of all of our offices. So we've got people in Guelph, we've got people in Kitchener, we've got people in Europe. We've got people kind of spread out all over. We're mostly in Canada like our consultants or Europe, but we do. A lot of our stuff is remote, so we've got partners in both Canada and the US. We're actually split pretty nicely now, but I'm in the Niagara region, close to Niagara Falls.

Speaker 2:

I was going to say, is that near Toronto? So it's about an hour and 15 from Toronto, niagara, but you can go right over the border to Buffalo.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, it's perfect because I'm in the middle of the Buffalo airport and the Toronto airport. So when I'm looking to fly out I just look at the best flights and I do try and avoid Toronto just because of the traffic. But yeah, it's pretty central. It works out really really well.

Speaker 2:

So Sabre is a fully remote organization with consultants in the United States, canada and Europe and you focus on manufacturing implementations for Business Central.

Speaker 4:

Right, so we do only manufacturing. We don't really do the food processing but everything else. So we're really focused in engineer to order, repetitive production, really all the other modes.

Speaker 2:

Excellent. It's nice. And that fully remote, it can be challenging in a sense for, you know, sometimes for the talent that you have working at an organization, I think to to feel included.

Speaker 4:

So I'm sure you so we do different things. Like on Tuesday we do like a big meeting and it's really just like a water cooler, like we really spend about an hour and we just sort of talk about like life and what's going on. And we do a little bit of business stuff. So we'll talk a little bit about sales and marketing and things that are coming up, but a lot of it is just to feel like that collegial, feel connected, learn about each other, kind of try and keep that relationship. And we do some things together, like so for Christmas we'll get together locally if we can and then we'll try and put up like a team's meeting or something so that people can call in and have a chat. But we do a little bit on site. But I would say it's like very rare Customers don't really need it anymore and they don't want to pay for it, they don't want to commit to a full day of a consultant being on site.

Speaker 4:

So you know, we were starting to do that quite a while ago and it just works out really well for us. And then we started, we and it just works out really well for us. And then we started we would go to the office, but then half the time people weren't there. So when our lease went up we just kind of said, let's not renew it. And it's actually worked out super well.

Speaker 2:

I think that does work out well and thankfully with technology, as you hit on a couple of points with the customers the full day on site or even if you have a full travel day on either end for a consultant. That's a little wear and tear on them. There's also an additional expense, but when you're on site with a customer if you're there all day, then they're disrupted for an entire day.

Speaker 2:

So, not going into the office gives you the opportunity to have half day sessions or one or two hour sessions, without the travel, the burden around it. That's great.

Speaker 1:

And then also even dealing with traffic too. I mean just going into the office, the amount of time that you waste just sitting in traffic and if you total that your career 15 years ago it was all you're on site, right, like it was customers wanted you there.

Speaker 4:

So it was the same thing. Like three, four days I'm driving to Toronto. I'm getting speeding tickets at times you know what I mean but you're going, it's exhausting. Then you're running back. It's a lot to balance. You would show up and half the time you're waiting around for the first hour anyway because they're rolling in and they've got to check their email and they've got to touch base with Bill before they can come over Karen or whoever it is. So I found a lot of the times you're having actually a constructive like four, five, six hours because the time that they can commit to you is less. So when you do the remote it allows you to see three, four customers in a day and they get fatigued, right Like they can only handle an hour, an hour and a half. We have some customers this is their first ERP implementation so it's very overwhelming for them. So once they hit that hour mark they're starting to glaze over, they're starting to feel overwhelmed. There's the whole change management side of things. You've got to kind of wean them in.

Speaker 1:

So it's been nice because there isn't that added pressure to try and make the most of the mileage or the travel, because you you know that you've only got that hour yeah, I I agree that hitting that 90 minute even discovery sessions, it's tough because um information details falls apart as you get to 90 minutes, a good hour, and giving yourself 30 minutes after, even if you have to need that extra 30 minutes to collect your notes with copilot, makes it easy. Now, but 90 minutes I mean.

Speaker 4:

I've seen people just like yeah, they're thinking about something else now they're surfing the internet and if their cameras are on, you can almost see the moment right where you've just they're starting to kind of. You can see that they're on a second screen or whatever.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, no, it's. It's those short direct meetings, which also is the one we wanted to talk about, which gets me why people book back to back to back to back meetings. Because there is, if you put me, three meetings for an hour in a row by the time I finished the third one, I don't even remember the first one.

Speaker 2:

Right, it's, it's, it's the same thing when you go to have the meetings with customers or with anybody. You both made valid points that there is a certain point where you lose them and then they start worrying about oh, I'm missing the emails from this.

Speaker 2:

Oh there's a shipping problem that I need to address, but I have to focus on this for an hour or so. It gives them the opportunity to do so. So good, I'm learning a lot and I like that. So you work with ERP implementations and you said that you have a customer working with the first time for an ERP implementation. You've worked with ERP implementations and, chris, this kind of goes to you.

Speaker 2:

I haven't had a chance to speak with you about this yet, either believe it or not. In all the times that we talk to you, I haven't had a chance to speak with you about this yet, either believe it or not. In all the times that we talk, how much detail should go into an ERP system? This is a blanket question. But when someone's going through an ERP implementation and they're working on either migrating from an external system into it and that external system could be a piece of paper, right? So somebody's tracking the business somewhere. But if you take a look at Business Central, you have something with items, right? We're talking about manufacturing. You have items. Items have categories, items have attributes, right? There's a lot of opportunity to enter data into the system. How do you work through with a customer to determine what level of detail or data that they put into the system. It's a very vague and broad question.

Speaker 4:

I know it's like such a vague question, but it's like it's so opportunistic, I would say right, and I think throughout, kind of twice a year, we hear about all the new releases and we hear about Copilot and AI and sales agents and all the things that people can do, and it can be overwhelming, and I think what happens is that we can sometimes get so lost in the setups and the features and everything that we can do. I think one of the big things we need to focus on is the information and the questions. What are your current business processes? What is working well? What information are you collecting today? What can't you do because you're not collecting a certain piece of information? And look more at what are your customers asking you for, what are your vendors asking you for, your managers asking you for?

Speaker 4:

Try and make it. There's a saying make it as simple as you possibly can without making it any simpler, and that's really what you want to do is start with what is it that you currently collect? What is it that you're you? Fundamentally, your business is suffering. Maybe this is why you're getting the ERP system what are you missing? And then sort of just start there and then, from there, have users pilot, have users give you feedback on what more you need. Right, like oh, I need more categorizations in the attributes or in the data, but don't turn something on or ask someone to collect something, just in case somebody might need to analyze it later, and I think that's a mistake that gets made.

Speaker 2:

I see that a lot and that's where this question comes to mind is I've talked with individuals through implementations and you explain item categories. For example, because it's a it's, I've used items one because you work with me, specialize in manufacturing implementations, and two items are one area where it can really get draining because you have item categories. How do you categories your items? And I've seen some implementations where they have so many categories that it's overwhelming and I don't even know how they analyze it because it's overwhelming. And then you add the attributes to it and they get hung up on the implementation because they're trying to figure out a way to categorize. I've even had a conversation with someone something as simple as a customer posting group.

Speaker 2:

And they wanted to go through and put as much detail as possible into a customer posting group and it became overwhelming. And it seems to add to the you mentioned change management but the comfortableness of moving to a new system or a different system or upgrading it.

Speaker 4:

And those are one of the things that I always ask about is the adoptability standpoint right? The more detail, the more setup, the more configuration you're turning on, just in case we'll call it it's are your users going to adopt that? Like? There's the change management. Like we talk a lot about the integration of the system, but we forget sometimes that we're also integrating people into this and we want to make sure that it's easy enough that they get the data that they need, but not so complex and so much data entry and administrative nightmare that they'll just start to circumvent the process. So an idea, too, is that. So I see it. A lot in manufacturing.

Speaker 4:

Back in the day, there used to be the most intelligent part numbers going right, like engineers could look at a part number and tell you everything about it the material, the gauge, the thickness, like every single thing in life. But now, as you kind of mature in these ERP systems, it becomes so important to understand, like what are the fields, what are the opportunities, what's the functionality do? And now you're moving towards a semi-intelligent part number or even a dummy part number, because you have so many other fields that you can leverage to get the data in that you need right. So that's the thing I would be looking at is just what is it do you actually need? And do you need it to all come from one source? Because with Power BI and analytics analytics sometimes you can pull data from other places. The user thinks it's all coming from one, but really it's just housed in its appropriate place. Now, that's specific for that yeah, you need a.

Speaker 1:

You need a really good subject matter expert when, when, especially when you're going through a discovery component, because one of the key things like you both mentioned that everybody wants this feature, that they may or may not need it because they think someone may want it, and where subject matter experts is where it becomes important is that they need to be able to articulate what they need to do.

Speaker 1:

What do they need to know on a day-to-day basis. Then we can worry about anything else because you know, if you look at it from that aspect, that's typically 80% of your day of what you do Like. If you focus of what do you do, 80% of the time it's the bigger focus when you're implementing Business Central, the 20%. You'll identify that because someone may need something like a report that they want to see once a week, or they do a process every two weeks, once a month. Yes, it's a big deal, but is it really where you should be focusing on, or should you be focusing on the ones that you do day to day? And a lot of people forget that when they find a new ERP and it's like, oh, these are cool things, but you got to look at your day to day stuff.

Speaker 4:

They get so excited about the features and you'll have that forever, right? So think about yes, you can grow into it, don't paint yourself into a corner, and I think that's where it's super important too. First of all, you touched on a few things like an SME. So we do a fixed fee implementation. So we're very prescriptive in what we want to cover, what we want to do for the first couple of phases. The first phase is the theory phase, where we're not worried about how you're going to use the software.

Speaker 4:

What I want to do is I want to introduce you to opportunities, features in the software, explain what they are, but I need a subject matter expert, someone who does the job in that session, because A then I'm not explaining 101 theories like what is a sales order? What is a purchase order? Why would you use it? Right, because that becomes confusing, because then they'll tell you they need something they don't really need, and not because they're dumb, but they just don't use it every day, right? So you need someone who does the job that can answer the questions as to, to your point, what do we need? What data do we collect in in our current system right now?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and that sorry Brad that data that you collect has to be data that that you need to be able to decide, to do a business decision right. You don't just want to put data because you just want that data. If it's, if it's not going to help, you do have a better decision making.

Speaker 2:

These are great points because you hit on the feature right. So Business Central has many features and they'll continue to have many features. But just because it has a feature doesn't mean that you need to use it, and I often see individuals get excited and they want to use as many of these features as possible, which can add also to the overwhelming nature of an ERP implementation. So, to go back to the question of how detailed do you get within an ERP system, so it seems to be a matter of and I have another question that I've been asking because I'm hung up on this this year. I'm hung up on two points this year, one of them I'll talk with you about today.

Speaker 2:

You ask the subject matter expert or the person doing the job what they do to perform their duty and what do they need to perform their duty. But at which point do you maybe pull in someone from the management point of view? Because the subject matter expert or where, or would you? I guess I could say not where do you? Would you pull in?

Speaker 2:

Say, say, I'm a business owner and I sell product and Chris ships it and picks it, packs it, does everything for me, he knows what he needs to do, but I may have a different view of, one, what gets done and two, I may want to now start doing something differently, which is maybe a contributing factor to me moving to Business Central, because it has a feature that I need. So how do you manage that type of scenario where the subject matter expert will tell you one thing because they know how to do their job well, they do the job well with whatever system they have and they may want to do better things because they think it would help the business, but then also the business leadership wants things different so that they can become more efficient as well.

Speaker 4:

Right, and I think that becomes a big part of sometimes. What can be missing is the conversation that you're having with not only a subject matter expert but you should have probably a business analyst as well in the meeting, so someone who's designated to be sitting in on most of the training, listening to the decisions, thinking about how is this all going to integrate together and then obviously typically through the sales cycle, you know, kind of the management, what am I looking to get? So, as an example, we did something recently where they currently were buying everything as kits but they didn't have any inventory control because they weren't inventorying the individual components. So throughout kind of early discussions, we knew that that was an overall reason to move to Business Central and what they needed. That process had to change, whether people wanted to or not. So it can't just be exclusive to the SME and what do they want and what are they doing today, because you don't want to bring their current problems into the new ERP system. Right, like that wouldn't obviously be of good value. So I think one of the things that sometimes gets missed and I see this even at like conferences right Like you'll have somebody, they ask a question and immediately we go to the feature that's gonna fix the problem, but it needs to be bigger, like what challenge are you experiencing today?

Speaker 4:

How do you collect that information today? What are the users doing today? And it can't just be a I want advanced warehousing turned on. Okay, I'll turn on directed picks and putaways and I'll train you on how to use it. Because, to your point, brad, it's going to then create maybe more functionality, more paperwork, more screens people have to use more functionality, more paperwork, more screens people have to use. Like, does that really make sense for the business? So I think what we need to do is really dig into what they're doing today, what the problems that they're having are, and then ask them, like really press them on why they need things or how they intend to use it, and get the feedback of other people, not just one, to value that you're doing everything for the greater good. Right, like you're not just a trainer who's saying, hey, what do you need? I'll turn it on and show you how to use it. Like that, to me, is isn't consulting, that's training.

Speaker 1:

That's a good question that you'd ask Brad, because the next one I would say, jen, you mentioned business analysts. One of the things that you can also bring in is an executive sponsor. That executive sponsor is really that person that knows the vision of where they want the organization to go. So you're right, you may have a subject matter expert that focuses on what they do currently on a day-to-day basis, but the executive sponsor should be able to answer to Brad's question and say, hey, I know you do that, but we're also going to start bringing EDI, or maybe we need to. There's another orders coming in via Shopify, right? So they would know that better than a subject matter expert, because they, that executive sponsor, should be able to articulate what that vision of a new ERP is going to be for the business. So that's another thing to consider as well, on top of a business analyst, because they have to validate the process.

Speaker 4:

Validate to make sure that the report is good, right, like you can't just say oh, I'm just going to have subject matter experts and call it a day, like I would argue.

Speaker 4:

There should always be a clear project stakeholder, even just for like two people are debating, who breaks the tie right. Then you have to have your business analyst, who is responsible to say I've done most of the jobs I like technology should be someone that people respect. You know they're sitting in to make sure that as you bring the puzzle pieces together, they fit. But then you have your subject matter experts in the areas of finance, procurement. You know supply chain, all of that to make sure that individually things are working as well. So to your point, chris, I think you need all of those and I think they need to be mandatory.

Speaker 1:

Are you saying this is a team sport? It's a team sport, not an individual sport. Yeah, football.

Speaker 4:

Let's do football, because you guys just had Thanksgiving.

Speaker 1:

It's like lacrosse, right? Yeah, that's a Canadian sport right, lacrosse, I really like lacrosse.

Speaker 2:

Boston Bruins.

Speaker 4:

That's all I have to say to you Fun fact, my aunt is married to a gentleman whose nephew is Brad Marchand, so I think I explained that really funny but technically he's like my second or third cousin, so my husband always tells me he'll believe that when he sees the tickets. But that is a true story.

Speaker 2:

I think you, I think that you should get uh both, uh your husband and me tickets. Just to prove this just to prove the fact. And you can just tell him. He'll say why is this? Guy going with me just say because he's a new englander, so yes, he can I don't even need to explain no, just that's uh marsh and great too I really like him, so yeah but to go back to this, you, you hit on something else that I wanted to ask, which I talked about as a point.

Speaker 2:

So, going through an implementation, asking why and that's something I've always been a fan of or in favor of was asking why until you have the lowest level answer, because some people get offended when you say why all the time.

Speaker 2:

But to me, when you're going through an implementation, go back to consulting versus training, which was an amazing point. If I'm just sitting there doing what you're telling me to do, I'm setting it up and I'm just training it for you, the value comes in with the business consulting to help them determine what's the best use of the application for them to be the most efficient and have the best results of the implementation. But ask why? Because it's either going to validate you know, to reiterate what you said it's either going to validate what you're saying is real, because you can explain it, versus the why? Oh, because we've always done it that way and nobody knows why you're doing it.

Speaker 2:

But this is now becomes a requirement, requirement which brings me into the point of something that I get hung up on and you, you talked around it a little bit with saying, well, okay, well, we just have to set this up, and I'll just do this for you. I I've been witness to a lot of implementations where they make modifications to it, now within your fixed, your fixed fee or fixed project. How do you rephrase that?

Speaker 4:

again Fixed fee. That's what we call it Fixed fee implementations.

Speaker 2:

How do you incorporate modifications into that process and when do you identify those modifications? That's a loaded question because that's my big pain point for 2025.

Speaker 4:

Okay, good. Well, it's 2024, but I'll get you early because I'm an overachiever.

Speaker 4:

But the fixed fee we only do what we would call easy. So the way that I look at that is could a techno functional or a junior developer do the function like add fields to pages, add fields to reports, things like that? I would consider that just part of fixed fee, so it's easy to upgrade. It's probably not going to hinder you at all. Full customization we do try to avoid. Especially because we're in the small to medium-sized businesses.

Speaker 4:

We really try to say just use this as it is. If they really can't, then we'll look for an ISV that can already do it because you know it's warrantied, lots of customers use it. If we really do need it. There is a provision in the beginning in our quotes that says we think you'll need 20 hours of customization or 30 hours of customization and we'll include that. And then it kind of goes later towards the scoping. So you'll get it in your budget quote so you can ask your boss for approval of that. If we get into the implementation and people really adopt the out of the box or they can leverage Power Automate or Power Pages or something like that, then they save that money. So they don't get billed for that unless they actually need it. But we really stress, test them to validate if they do need it. Because, going back to the why and the questions, half the time the biggest challenge I find is the lingo right, like somebody will tell me that they want A.

Speaker 3:

It's like the old man goes in. You listen to my conversations.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, but I mean it's true.

Speaker 4:

Like, to put it in simple terms, like an old man goes into a auto repair shop and he asks for an oil change. Well, eventually you realize he really needs like a tune-up, right. But you just adopt his lingo because he just always uses it that way. So one of the things that I always say is like, try and figure out what it is they're calling it. So we had one the other day. They said said, when we go live, we just need a put away process. You know we need a put away process.

Speaker 4:

As I talked to them about what that would mean inside the ERP system from a transaction and a data standpoint, they're like oh no, no, that'd be way overkill. I just need to make sure that someone's put away the material. Like I need to see what was brought in and what was put away, which was as easy as just setting up a generic bin with the actual bins, which is pretty simple warehousing Right. So one of those things that I often go to is just making sure, like again for the why is just that it actually makes sense for them.

Speaker 2:

That's a good point. It is terminology. That's a good point, it is terminology is a big hindrance. And yeah, I I can tell you how many, how many mistakes I've seen in life, not just the epi implementations because of a misunderstanding of of language. I guess you could say in essence what it is. So we started going down the road of the modifications and then determining the modifications, because it sounds like the way that you're going through the implementation is start using the system, then figure out what you need. And the reason why I say this because that's the other thing I'm hung up on is I've witnessed many implementations that get complicated or hung up. It's because they'll talk to somebody. They'll say I need a put away process. That person that they're talking with will say, okay, you need a put away process. Okay, well, based on what you said, we need 3 000 hours of modifications.

Speaker 2:

We're going to create all these extensions right and you need handheld devices and everything nobody's touched the software yet so here they are working on modifications based on someone who's helping them with an implementation, not doubting them and their ability to implement by any means, but just maybe through miscommunication or misunderstanding. They now spent a lot of time and money on a modification to do a process when no one's even touched the system to see if the system does exactly what they need.

Speaker 4:

So for us, we'll queue up your requests, your modifications, Like I have a system. It's online. You can log into it at any point to see all the things you've asked for throughout the implementation. But I'm not going to actually release any of those until about the fifth phase of the project, because I need you to go through sort of the this is what the system can do. Here's your opportunities. I need you to go through sort of an advanced training where you're hands-on and you're probably bringing more people in at that point. Right, the people that are the doozers who need to click the buttons and move things through now that some decisions have been made, they need to pilot, maybe even for a little bit, to start seeing how it's flushing through, how it's executing, and then later down the line, if you tell me you still need a modification, I'm more inclined to say okay, you've used the system enough that you've proven it to me that you really do need this for some business value. It's adding a competitive edge for you. It's adding a business value for you, adding a competitive edge for you. It's adding a business value for you.

Speaker 4:

And we had one client probably seven or eight years ago now I was probably newer, like in working in that industry or something, and we really pushed back on customizations and said I don't think you need it. I don't think you need it, but maybe I wasn't as firm as I needed to be and what happened was they ended up. They were steadfast that they needed it, so we let them do it. They're actually now a testimonial customer for saying just listen to Saber when they say you don't need it, use the system for a little bit. And then have people because you think something's clicky or cumbersome, because you're slow. Well, it's all new to you. It was probably clicky and cumbersome and you were probably slow when you started using you know GP 20 years ago or visual or whatever ear pieces sage, whatever you had. So you just got to give it a little bit of time where you're living and breathing it for a little bit to prove to yourself and everybody else that you actually need that customization. Cause it. That adds complexity, for sure.

Speaker 2:

It so does and that's my pitch for 2025 is how can we ensure or validate that the modifications that are being made, which add complexity and sometimes stall implementations because that modification introduces new challenges? That modification isn't translated properly from the language of what they wanted without someone looking at it and I see so many customers get stuck and there's battles and and issues because somebody wasn't to modify or said they needed a modification before they even clicked a new customer right, and they'll use it as an excuse down the road too for not testing.

Speaker 4:

Well, and you see that with like so again, I'll go back to the advanced warehousing right. Like so, people turn it on because somebody used the terminology, somebody set it up. Now I'm live. I got a bunch of transactions or open records. Well, now I'm looking to modify and automate all of the processes that that setup turned on.

Speaker 4:

But had I properly piloted, properly done my UAT properly, got the right people involved, like all of those things, I probably would have identified that Business Central in its vanilla form was just set up and configured incorrectly and I could have saved all this time and money and headache. And now my upgrades are annoying. So, or they then needed to do modifications to turn off something midway. And what complexity does that add? Because now I've got a document that was received with a warehouse receipt. Now I want to turn it up, like all those things are.

Speaker 4:

Just because people aren't having those conversations about do you really need separate warehouse documents? Because if Brad does the receiving and Brad does the putting away and Brad does the whatever, you probably don't need it all turned on. But it's just, it's understanding what is the purpose of that feature, how is it intended to be used and how does it work with everything else, and that's kind of where that detail and abstract comes in, right? Do you need all those extra warehouse documents? If the answer is no, then look for other opportunities to still get a put away process.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so going back, you're back to the fixed fee model. We're talking about a lot of the processes of basically preparation right to have a successful implementation, do as much preparation as you can. That preparation can be discovery, testing, training using the system, out of curiosity, and if any of these you can't answer, that's fine. Um, is the discovery process part of the fixed fee implementation? Yes, it is Okay, and what is involved in that discovery process and how long should someone expect to take through the discovery process?

Speaker 4:

So I would almost argue that the discovery happens in, like the kickoff. There's a designated discovery call, which is for each of the individual areas, but it also goes into the theory as well, right, because there's certain things that I would call like oxygen, where you'll forget to tell me because it's just so obvious in every day to you that it'll come out. As I start to show you the features inside of Business Central, you'll be like oh yeah, and, by the way, we also do this. But I would say it's easier with us because we only do manufacturing. So you know, for 20 years all I've ever done is manufacturing.

Speaker 4:

So it's a lot easier, even when you're using the wrong terminology or explaining a process, for me to understand oh, you would probably have these challenges, or oh, this is what you mean when you say that. But I would definitely say that you're looking at like two to three weeks probably, at least an hour and a half, maybe more, per functional area of sessions where you're asking them show me process documents you may have created, walk me through entering in an order. I always say pretend, like you won the lottery and you're going to Fiji and you know you're not taking me. So I'm mad at that, but I'm your replacement, so you have to show me your function. Show me and walk me through it in the screens.

Speaker 2:

If somebody wins the lottery and is going to Fiji, I don't think they're going to spend much time with you.

Speaker 4:

Well, they could take me, I'm fun, take me, I'm fun, I'm very fun, you know we're not going to do BC. I mean I can let that go for Fiji, for the beach.

Speaker 2:

We're going to do beach time. Yeah, yeah, but they still wouldn't teach you. And why would they take you?

Speaker 4:

Why not? You can't even get Bruins tickets, because they're good people why not.

Speaker 1:

Why can't you take me? Just take me.

Speaker 4:

But I do say to them like, train me as if you're leaving, like I have to do your job now. So try to leave no stone unturned. Show me your screen, show me your reports. What information are you responsible to send out? What information are you responsible to bring in as part of the discovery? I asked them as well.

Speaker 4:

So we don't do their forms modifications because they can be simple or they could be super complex. So we train them on how to do that. We'll help them to do it. But that's another thing where I'll ask for their existing documents, not for the purposes of recreating those reports, but for the purposes of making sure that I'm collecting the data inside of the ERP through the training, to make sure that data has a field so it can be printed on a form, on a Power BI report, on whichever. So again, if I don't look at those, I could be over-abstracting their process and not getting them to collect the data. And then later, when they're going to run the report, they're like well, how come I can't get the heat number? Well, where are we collecting that? I didn't know that was part of your process. So it's not only talking to them, but it's looking at their forms, it's looking at their reports, it's talking to other people around them, just to kind of get a sense.

Speaker 2:

I like that approach. In essence, you're doing the job with them instead of listening to what they're having to say. I like that also. I picked up on the oxygen. That's just there and you take it for granted.

Speaker 4:

And you do.

Speaker 2:

And, and sometimes people leave out details until they go live and they say oh, where do I find that heat number? And you'll say you've never told me about the heat number. Oh yes, I did, right Back on January 2, when we were talking about Thanksgiving.

Speaker 4:

Well, it's a lot of information both ways, right when they're teaching me about their processes.

Speaker 4:

It's a lot of information. So that's where I try and document in the beginning like, okay, which features do I know for sure I need to show them, or what extra piece of information might seem like something that I need to collect in a different space that isn't there, which might be just like a new feel to a page or something trivial, or it might be a full customization and truly something more. But the thing is that you want to just make sure that you're kind of getting through the oxygen, and that's why I always say to people I hate the word training, I'm never going to train you. This is a series of workshops where we're working on an agile approach, where I'm going to set a little bit up for you based on what I know of your industry, what I learned in the discovery, but then you're going to see things, you're going to use the system, you're going to play with it a bit, and then you're going to give me a feedback loop on oh, you missed this, or this is too cumbersome, or this won't work for me, or whichever.

Speaker 4:

So it's not. I set it up, I train you and you go live. It's collaborative, and then we're kind of building on it and that's where I'll usually start smaller and then I start with less and I get them to give me that feedback loop on where I have to add more. But I don't start with every single thing turned on, train them on the software and then pray I can turn it off later. I think that's crazy town.

Speaker 2:

That's a dangerous thing to do is turn on everything. It is. And it's also almost like going through and say here's the sales and receivables set up and someone's like okay, well, what does this option do? What does this option do? What does this option do? What does this option do? Oh, I need that. Oh, I don't need that. Oh well, we could use that now and they're totally guessing at it. Right, because, they don't use the software every day.

Speaker 4:

So they're making an assumption on what it is they think they're hearing, or, to your point, and that's where, like, it can go wild, where they're like, oh, but that would be great, we don't do that today, but that would be great. And it's like, oh, geez. So what you want to do is just sort of start with your baseline. What are you doing today? Or what problem are you facing today that you're truly facing, like I said in the client scenario where they couldn't properly manage their inventory, and then you're going to build on it. So first you're going to start with your low hanging fruit, like what are things that you can clear? Like a lot of the times, this is a crazy one. They'll say is there a place in BC for me to reference the vendor's part number and my part number? So it's like, of course you're going to show them that and you're going to use that feature, right, but the more advanced stuff, the stuff that's harder to turn off.

Speaker 2:

That's where you really want to qualify it. So you mean like directed picks and putaways and advanced way of housing, you can't just turn off.

Speaker 4:

No, unfortunately you can't, and you know I'll put my word into the people. But it's.

Speaker 2:

It's unfortunately not that easy. The people we'll put my word into the people.

Speaker 4:

The people yes.

Speaker 2:

I like the approach to that and that's where I had mentioned that I'm struggling this year. Like I said, I have two points. I mentioned it in an episode a few episodes ago, at the time of this, recording my other pain for 2025. But this is the other one is get into the system and use it before you decide you need a modification or a change in the process. And then the other one, use it before you say you need to change the process because sales order entry will be difficult at first, because it's new.

Speaker 2:

So overcome the fear of the newness and then soon you'll be flying through the sales order. So what you think may be a cumbersome process, go through a few motions instead of doing it the first time, when it's new to you and it may be confusing. I like that approach of the collaborative use it. I almost feel like saying simply put, simply put, just with the way I speak, just sit down, start using it. Where it fails, we'll figure it out as we go. Not going live, but go through the workshop of okay, set up a customer using the base feedback loop. Do as much as you can. You know. If a question comes up, where do I put the payment terms? Yeah, show them where the payment terms goes. If there's something that doesn't have a spot for it, mark it and then determine. You know, put that in a place where you need a solution.

Speaker 4:

I would like to see implementations go that way, because then that's sort of my model and maybe I'm not a lot like you, but I am very like I always. I joke I'm bossy, right, but there's a change management with people are you saying I'm bossy?

Speaker 4:

well, you kind of came across as bossy. So I'm going to, I'm going to go with that and I'm going to say you said it, not me. But, um, so, as we go, you're kind of building a trust with people. And that's where I think, like you want to build that relationship and that trust with your clients, because you want them to just even, like, take your word for it. So I will be that blunt in an implementation. Like I will say look, I've set it up this way. I'm 90% sure, based on what you've told me, based on your industry, based on what I know, that this is correct. It will. There'll be areas to tweak it, but just do it this way, Like I don't show them the two or three other ways and I'll say to them look, it's an ERP system.

Speaker 4:

It can be configured slightly differently. So if you use it and you tell me it won't work, I say don't throw up your hands and you know, oh, this won't work, tell me why, like it's too many clicks, I got an error, I don't get the information I need. If you tell me the why, I can always work with that. But just start with this, use it and then give me some feedback and it sort of takes away that white page syndrome where they're like I don't know what to tell you, I don't know how to test it, I don't know if I should go option A or option B, like sometimes I feel like we give too many options, like I think we have to give them options. Of course, but it's just like sometimes there's four different ways to do it and there's pros and cons of both. Imagine if it's a new system.

Speaker 1:

There's four different ways to do it and there's pros and cons of both. Imagine if it's a new system.

Speaker 4:

Analysis paralysis, yeah, and someone's throwing 17 things at you. You're like I don't know.

Speaker 2:

They all sound good. That's how I am with trying to find something to watch on Netflix. There's so many movies and so many documentaries that I'll sit there and after 30 minutes go, ah, I can't find anything when there are shows that I would like, and it is a thing I think it was the Baskin-Robbins experiment or something, where they did the same thing with ice cream, where they found a store that had three flavors was far more profitable than the store that had the 28 flavors, because someone went in and they had three choices, right, the other store, they had 28 choices, and that's what happens. It's like, ah, it's indecision. You end up getting Chris's point analysis, paralysis you get paralyzed. It's like I don't want to make the wrong decision and I have many of them to make here, so I'm not going to make any.

Speaker 4:

And that's the challenge. I think that you then become the clients making assumptions. They're over-architecting their own solution. They're doing their best, right, based on what they know, but they're afraid that they're going to paint themselves into a corner or not get the data that maybe they'll need later. So then that's when I would say they over detail their processes, they ask for way too much data collection because they're so afraid to not use a feature. It's almost like they feel like it's back in the old days when you bought them in modules. It's like, oh no, if I don't use it, maybe it'll go away or something like that.

Speaker 4:

I'm not sure, but then they like they're just, they're just making too many assumptions. So I think again, as a consultant, our job is to look at what they need, look at their industry, look at where they need to grow, look at opportunities for them. Give them a little bit and then collaboratively workshop it out and pilot it. And that's why I always say, guys, if I'm wrong, that's why I don't set it up train you and then you go live. That's the exact reason why, and then hopefully you get more ownership through that and then owning the process and being excited and feeling like they had a say in it. You know that's huge too Like all the systems.

Speaker 4:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

I do love what you had mentioned about feedback loop and you mentioned it several times, and and and one of the things that you know, when I used to implement nav, it always felt like it was a, even from when I was in an end user side. It always felt like it's a waterfall and it's like they set it up and I have to deal with it. Right, there's never an opportunity to have that conversation. That's what you had mentioned.

Speaker 1:

We have to make that normal in ERP implementation, that you have to create and encourage feedback loop, because that's the only way for you to understand okay, was this set up correctly? For you to understand, okay, was this set up correctly? It's good to find out now, ahead of time than later. In UAT and it says hey, I set it up this way based on my understanding, but there was no feedback loop. Then when you're testing as an end user, you can say that doesn't work and you get discouraged because you spend all this time and you're getting close to go live. You do a new UAT and it's like this is not what I expected. Because you remove that feedback loop, you remove that opportunity for an end user to be able to ask questions, or vice versa, from a consultant standpoint, you also have to ask the right questions to make sure, like did I understand exactly why they want to do this or how they want to do this? So that's important. That we cannot forget is create that feedback loop and it has to be encouraged by both parties.

Speaker 2:

It's so many great points, I just keep jumping in. I'm just going to repeat everything you said, because this is going to be like the new model way, even though wait, I have to try not to be so bossy. How do I not be, how do I not sound bossy? You just listen sometimes I, I do listen.

Speaker 2:

I know you had mentioned at one point over architecting. The solution goes back to my modification before anybody touches a kick because follow into that loop, in that process. We need an extension to enhance the process. Oh, but now we need another one because we've over complicated a process which down the stream or process, as you say. I love the way that you're saying that I picked up on that project in process. See, I have the oz from the northeast and everyone always says I say car, I parked my car. I love that. I'm trying to lose it.

Speaker 4:

I'm training myself. I love it. No, I love that the um.

Speaker 2:

But that's what ends up happening with over architecting is you end up running these problems and you need to. It's almost like the the. It's almost like the medical or the pharmaceutical industry here in the United States. You know you take a pill and then you have to take another pill to combat the side effect of the pill. Then you have to take another pill to combat the side effect of that pill, which is you know. So, in essence, now, instead of having one pill or one, you know one small thing like go out and walk down the street every day for an hour. You're taking all of these pills and having the challenges.

Speaker 2:

So I like that control and that's where I see Business Central now is it's more important when you're doing the consulting, is you're more business consulting and guiding them versus training them how to use Business Central. It's how do you get the best for it and with your feedback loop, as Chris was elaborating on, they get a sense of ownership with it, because how many times I would be the first one sitting there entering the orders? I can't get my orders done, can't get my job done and I would say this is what jen told me to do yeah I didn't design the system this isn't me yeah, nobody asked me.

Speaker 2:

I would have said, no, we can't do it this way.

Speaker 4:

So right, yeah, I think, and that's the thing too. So, chris, to your point with the feedback loop, and I think to kind of bring it back to like, it would be way too detailed, if you will, to have everybody in every department in from the very beginning, all the way to the end, cause what's going to happen is they're going to spend most of the time debating what features should be used, if they really do it this way or that way, like all of the things. But then you can't have say, like just your stakeholders or all the upper management who never use the system and on all the meetings in the beginning, because that's too abstract, they don't even know the processes of today and how the data gets into the system. So I think the feedback loop is important, but I also think that bringing in the right people at the right times are so important. Because in the beginning, you're right, you need the feedback of the stakeholders why did you buy the ERP? Why did we go with the? What are we trying to accomplish? But then, as you go, they need to start bringing in more and more of those end-level users.

Speaker 4:

So in the beginning you need the decision makers Like what are the outcomes of our department. What are the key things that we need to do? Kind of high level, help me set up the system. Well then, as you go into the next phase, it's like bringing your right hand man. You're going to peer review the decisions I've made. You're going to fine tune it where it's wrong, because, again, we're not using this waterfall approach where we're going to wait till it's perfectly set up and then give it to you. We're going to agile, work it through and then, near the end, you're bringing in the people that you're literally just training. Right, like I'm just going to show you how to use the system, because you just do the shipping every day or the receiving, and it's really repetitive. So I think that's the big thing. Is the feedback loop so important? But the right people at the right time is also where that balance comes in.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely. One of the things that I tried to put this in perspective is that there was a years ago, before I even got into the consulting. You know, one of my first jobs is I worked in a facility and it was worked in a kitchen and one of the things they did was this whole elaborate, you know, rebuilding their floor because they need a new floor and on top of that they, they can push the cart easily and all that push the cart easily and all that.

Speaker 1:

But they failed to find out, or they failed to ask the janitor, who has to maintain it, of the tools that he would have needed to maintain it and to keep it clean, and so it's very similar to that. In the way I look at it, it's that you have to have the right people involved. That's going to cause an impact of their day to day, and you're right, you have to have the right people involved.

Speaker 2:

um, at certain points of the, the project, right it's all great and fascinating information and I'm learning so much. Is that better?

Speaker 4:

that's great.

Speaker 2:

Very good listening that's my good listening and, uh, I am an active listener and I pause and I wait and I'm not bossy and I like a little bossy is good.

Speaker 4:

I think you know confident I think, yeah, confident is good, right, like, and that's part of where, like I was trying to lead to with, like us, because we do manufacturing all day, every day it's easy to kind of be confident because I probably know the issues that they're having. I probably know what's worked well and not worked well over the past like you know, 16 years of consulting, kind of thing. So it's one of those things where I think confidence is the right word and you want your consultants to A have the confidence to challenge you a little bit, because you can have a difficult customer who's like no, I need that, I need the most advanced warehousing setup, I need it Now. Here's all the reasons why. And sometimes they really don't.

Speaker 4:

So you need someone that's really confident in what they're telling them to kind of sell them on the idea and, to your point, get them to actually use it, like, just start using it. You can yell at me, curse at me, tell me I'm wrong in two weeks, but you have to tell me that you've used it and how much and show me what you did. And then, if you want to curse me out at the end of it, go ahead Right, but you've got to do it or just do it this way. I think confidence is is good.

Speaker 2:

Good, good, I won't be bossy. Confidence I'll be confident.

Speaker 1:

Confidence is needed to say no too right, because that's an important thing when you're a consultant. Like no, no, no, don't do it that way Right. That requires confidence. Yeah, and here's all the reasons why Because some consultants are like, yeah, let's do it your way.

Speaker 2:

It goes back to Jen's point. You know, you're not just training and doing what they say, You're consulting with them, right? Whereas if it's, if you say yes, yes, yes and you don't say no, then you're not guiding them through their journey of an ERP implementation. See, to me, everything's a journey.

Speaker 4:

See everything's a journey? Yes, it is Just like the Bachelor, but the. What I would say is-.

Speaker 2:

What is the Bachelor?

Speaker 4:

They always say that you know, thank you for coming on this journey with me. Don't you watch the bachelor, the bachelorette. You're a lost cause. I had confidence what I want to watch the bachelor yes, to-do list, although you have enough that you can't decide what to watch, just yes I don't have television.

Speaker 2:

I have like netflix and such like that.

Speaker 4:

I don't have cable television I'm the same, just like netflix prime. I don't, so it's bachelor.

Speaker 2:

I, I don't even I. I heard about the bachelor. I've never watched it, but I'm not under living under a rock where I know about it. But that's just not my type of television show.

Speaker 4:

Fair enough. Fair enough, but they also go on journeys.

Speaker 2:

Yes, Well, it is. It's a journey and that's what you try it on your next ERP implementation Say. Now we're going to go on the journey of implementing Business Central. We're going to start off, right? Yes, yes. I've been on this journey kick I say it more from development. I've been talking with some others about a development journey and learning Business Central, al development. But I think we can transition that over to now the ERP journey.

Speaker 4:

It is, it's so true right, and that's where you have to go in. You have to think of it like a journey. This is something where I'm going to learn a little bit about it. I'm going to play with it, I'm going to decide if it's got something that I need that I don't have, and then I'm going to look for ISVs that are out there and then, to your point, it's not meant to be, I think, 100% fit for every company, for every vertical. They design it in such a way that you've got the ISVs and, potentially, the ability to customize, should it truly be required and needed. But I do think that it just becomes a matter of making sure that you're actually validating that first.

Speaker 2:

I like that. I like that Well, ms Jenen. Thank you very much, miss jen. Mrs jen, thank you very much. What do you go by?

Speaker 4:

jen. Yeah, mrs jen, mrs, jen, mrs jen he's like a teacher.

Speaker 2:

He's like a teacher. Well, I have to not be bossy, so I'm trying trying to come down to be passive.

Speaker 4:

You did fine. Yeah, you did fine. You did well there it was confident.

Speaker 2:

Well, we have you reserved for another conversation in the future. Yes, I don't know if you remember I do, I do. I will not be as bossy then I will change my disposition.

Speaker 4:

You'll have some Christmas cheer infused into you.

Speaker 2:

No.

Speaker 4:

No.

Speaker 2:

Is cheer infused into you? Um, no, no, you're the. Grinch, I was confident.

Speaker 4:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

I was confident. You are To say no, that's right, you needed that.

Speaker 2:

See, I said no, that was what I said. I would definitely have some new year cheer, uh for our next conversation and maybe we can have some new year's resolutions that we'll all talk about. Not that I believe in New Year's resolutions, because I think you should make changes throughout the year. You don't need a specific holiday for it, but I guess some people need that for it. See, it's just like when you go to the gym, you know January. All the way from January through mid-February it's packed.

Speaker 4:

Right.

Speaker 2:

Then after about Valentine's Day, it goes back to dead.

Speaker 4:

Dead yeah.

Speaker 2:

March.

Speaker 4:

Everyone's just regretting it.

Speaker 2:

Yes, yes, yes, but thank you very much for taking the time to speak with us this afternoon. It was a lot of fun. I did learn quite a bit about the Sabre about yourself and have some great ideas about implementations, and I'm happy to hear the way that you're implementing it because I think it is a recipe for success Recipe get it Manufacturing, even though you don't do food.

Speaker 4:

I like that Well, it brings in the food element of Thanksgiving, which is nice, so I appreciate it and thank you for having me. It's been really interesting and I had a lot of fun. It's our pleasure.

Speaker 2:

It's always a it's always a pleasure to speak with you. If anyone would like to get in contact with you to learn more about the implementation offerings that you have manufacturers, whether domestically here in the United States, in Canada or either in Europe, how is the best way to get in contact with you?

Speaker 4:

So just on the web is probably the best way. So saverlimitedcom, and then there's a bookings link on there to reach out and do more there, or you can even just use the good old fashion phone like the old days. So yeah, we have one of those still 519-585-7524. But the website is the best way and you can book a meeting from there as well.

Speaker 2:

Excellent, excellent Phone. I know it's like a fact, do you?

Speaker 1:

dial. Do you dial yeah?

Speaker 2:

I remember the rotary phones and I also remember I know you're only 21 and you don't remember but I remember having to get the 25 foot extension cord so that you can plug it into the phone and then you can take the phone and go hide in the room with it. And then, and then also someone else walking around. Yes, and then also do you remember call waiting yes, and then you could click over. So if someone was on the phone it was busy, all these things that people don't remember.

Speaker 4:

No, I would like to see how many households still have a phone line, so my parents do, and my mom never got call waiting because she said it is the rudest thing in the world she's like if I'm talking to you, she said I can't remember how many times I'm talking to aunt you know whoever no one named names in case they listen.

Speaker 4:

And she's like she would just go to her call waiting and then come back and be like, well, suzy's on the phone, I gotta let you go. And she's like, but you, you're talking to me. So we never had call waiting.

Speaker 1:

But yeah, my parents do have a landline still I have a landline still I do not, but I'm out living the woods yeah I it's.

Speaker 2:

It's funny like you bring back all these memories about implementations being all remote. I remember before the internet where you had dial up for it to connect to systems, but you know that's for another day. I mean, that's what happens as you get older, you start reminiscing of like, oh when I was a kid.

Speaker 1:

I've only heard about it from my ancestors when you made it your ancestors with that note.

Speaker 2:

Thank you very much. It was a pleasure speaking with you. I look forward to talking with you after the new year for another conversation. We'll have a lot of fun and talk with you soon. Ciao, ciao.

Speaker 4:

See you guys. Thank you, bye, bye.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, chris, for your time for another episode of In the Dynamics Corner Chair, and thank you to our guests for participating.

Speaker 1:

Thank you, brad, for your time. It is a wonderful episode of Dynamics Corner Chair. I would also like to thank our guests for joining us. Thank you for all of our listeners tuning in as well. You can find Brad at developerlifecom, that is D-V-L-P-R-L-I-F-E dot com, and you can interact with them via Twitter, dprlife. You can also find me at matalinoio, m-a-t-a-l-i-n-o dot i-o, and my Twitter handle is matalino16. And see, you can see those links down below in their show notes. Again, thank you everyone. No-transcript.

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Kris

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Brad

Co-host