Dynamics Corner
Dynamics Corner
Episode 323: In the Dynamics Corner Chair: Determining the Product Roadmap and the Power of Copilot
In this conversation, Jannik Bausager, Group Product Manager for Microsoft Dynamics 365 Business Central, discusses various product roadmap and strategy topics. He explains how the product roadmap is determined. He also discusses the planning horizon for the roadmap, highlighting the difference between planning and sharing specific details. The conversation covered various topics related to the Business Central application roadmap and growth opportunities. The discussion also highlighted the significance of staying up to date with the release plan and the importance of adequate documentation and communication.
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Welcome everyone to another episode of Dynamics Corner, the podcast where we dive deep into all things Microsoft Dynamics and its roadmap. Whether you're a seasoned expert or just starting your journey into the world of Dynamics 365, this is your place to gain insights, learn new tricks and hear from industry experts. I'm your co-host, chris.
Speaker 2:And this is Brad. This episode is recorded on May 21st 2024. Chris, chris, chris, you said roadmap.
Speaker 1:We all need a roadmap.
Speaker 2:You said roadmap but it makes me think. Do you remember when you were driving, or have you ever driven with a like a paper map? Oh my gosh, with a paper map? Oh my gosh. Yes, A map quest. Now everybody has a GPS. Remember map quest? I talked with my son and others and they grew up with the phone and a map. I don't think they understood what it was like to have to print out directions or to use a map book when you're driving down the street. It's just amazing how technology has changed and how some of the old technologies have forgotten.
Speaker 1:You couldn't even figure out what the traffic was Like. It's just a piece of paper expecting like oh, I'm going to make it this time Exactly.
Speaker 2:and you would just go yes, now it talks to you, now it reroutes you, now it does everything.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:You say roadmap? That's what it makes me think of. And, speaking of roadmaps, today we had the opportunity to speak with Yannick Balser about what goes into the Business Central application roadmap, what goes into Business Central we talked about so much, and also some amazing growth opportunities and strategies for prospects, customers and partners. Good afternoon, how are?
Speaker 3:you doing, I am doing fine, and you guys?
Speaker 2:Not too bad, doing very well, very well, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3:Good morning to Christopher. I guess it is.
Speaker 1:It looks really dark there it is it's morning Six in the morning, oh okay, okay, too bad, and you don't have jet lag, like I have from Asia. So you know, no, certainly not, not from you guys.
Speaker 2:No, that must be a big change, although we went to DynamicsCon live last week.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 2:And for me that was a two hour time difference and that hurts. And just talk with me like I know you went to asia, so what's the difference for you with asia?
Speaker 3:asia is five hours, so you know a little more. Um, as I say, you know I hate to not hate, but you know I don't like to go. You know east, because that's I can't accommodate when I go. You know I hate to not hate, but you know I don't like to go. You know east, because that's I can't accommodate. When I go west, you know to US, I love it, that's where I'm Superman in the morning. So you know I actually went home. So now I went west, you could say, and that's of course great, because I was up early this morning and thought I was even in the office after my exercise at seven here in the office the morning, and thought I was even in the office after my exercise at seven here in the office the first thing they do.
Speaker 3:They had a fault in the fire alarm, so we all had to walk to the street and I was here ready to work and I ended up on the street this morning. So, anyway, yeah, that's what happens. That's what happens.
Speaker 2:Yes, no, the time difference affects me because then we went to directions in North America, which was three hours for me, because this year the conferences are towards the West Coast and, like you, I'm Superman in the morning, but when everybody wants to go to eat dinner at seven in the evening or 1900, it's crash. It's my bedtime.
Speaker 1:So it's a little it's a little difficult.
Speaker 2:So it's a little difficult, and then I think it takes. I try to stay on the schedule, but after a few days you become acclimated to the local time because of the sun. So then when you come back that's where the whole jet lag comes in. You get a little sleepier, a little off, as you can say how was the conference?
Speaker 3:conference. So so I just want to did we start already. Is are we live are we?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, always okay it's, it's rocking okay I?
Speaker 3:just wanted to know if this was like a small trip into this. No, okay. So uh, conference was, uh was great. I mean, uh, in asia we had 500 partners, a little more than last year. So I mean I love, you know I like all the events. But Asia is great in the sense that you know it's a smaller audience so you know it's not as busy, you don't run around crazy and have, you know, all kind of sessions on top of each other. You know you're a little more in control there and I mean the appetite for a business central is the same as the sessions on top of each other. You know you're a little more in control there and I mean the appetite for a business central is the same as the other conferences as well. It's just huge and there's, you know, a lot of growth in Asia. So it's a matter of you know just us, yeah, getting to both more partners, more capacity out there, and we'll rock like you rock like we do in the rest of the world, so to speak.
Speaker 2:Well, the product is growing, at least from what I can see here in the US, and also now with that wonderful thing they call the Internet, you have to take it for what it's worth, but you get to see visibility into other countries and just from the communications that you have you can see that the product's taking off. So you mentioned there's 500 partners. How many attendees does that equate to, I know, in directions North America?
Speaker 3:I think we had 1,300. No, so when I say 500 partners, I mean like there were 500 attendees there. Okay, you know. So that's what it is. How many partners that would I mean, like you know, unique partners? I'm not really sure. The number was there on a slide. Of course, some said you know more and some just one, but in total we had 500 people there 500 is a good number.
Speaker 2:It's an intimate group because it gives you the opportunity to speak with more people. That's as Chris had mentioned. You get more time with more people. That's as chris had mentioned, you get more time with individuals. One thing I a curiosity, just not to spend too much time on the conference is the message the same? So yeah, at each conference? Is there how different? We had directions north america approximately maybe a month ago, and so now here we are, a month later. Is there a cycle for these conferences or is the messaging rather similar now that 2024 wave one was released?
Speaker 3:So that's a super question. So I would say, in most cases it's the same message we actually do. And the great thing about Asia coming after the North American one is we, you know, in my case, doing, you know, keynote day one and so on is that we, you know, have already rehearsed that or not even rehearsed. We've already given that in North America. So, going to Asia, I mean, if people go to both, they will, you know, some will be disappointed if they expect a completely different show, because for us, a lot of it is, of course, a replay of what we did in North America. Of course, if there is, you know, we're, of course, looking at what's happening in the region. So, opening-wise, satya was just, you know, traveling Asia the week before we came there. We can't take the you know and say it's due to us, unfortunately not. We can't take the you know and say it's due to us, unfortunately not. But he was there.
Speaker 3:And there's been a lot of communication in the media about the investment Microsoft is doing in the Asia region. So of course we referenced that. It doesn't make sense to, you know, go on stage and not just be silent, because there's actually, you know, we're building data centers in most of the countries there we're investing in, you know, skilling of people. I mean it's billions and billions of dollars. That was basically committed, you know, from Indonesia to Malaysia, to Thailand, singapore, you know, yeah, and I could give Vietnam, you know, just going on with the countries. So I'm sorry for not mentioning all of them if there are some international listeners here, but it was just a huge, huge commitment. So of course that's changed from an opening perspective.
Speaker 3:And then another thing is in this business, you know, things move so fast. So the news we had in North America I mean, there are new, you could say, things and new updates to our release, even, you know, a month later. So one of the things we had in Asia and announced there was our new set of Power BI reports that we will be releasing, first in private preview and then we will release it, you know, ga, in October. So we had some mock-ups of what that actually is, full embedded experience in Business Central for the power behind. So that was not North America, because we first have finalized the plans after coming back. That's how fast it is. So no show is the same. I have to say it's not like going seeing, you know a rock concert and you'll say, oh, it's the same set list you know. For that we will always have, you know, a new tune to play, because this world is changing so fast that's true.
Speaker 1:It's only about a month difference. Right like that, you have a brand new announcement which we just missed in north america. We had to see it through Twitter.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, thankful for Twitter and the internet, because we were able to see the screenshots of the preview. I try to keep up with it, as you had mentioned, and in this space, I feel as if you go to sleep for 24 hours. The world would be completely different. So you have to sleep in smaller chunks, to sleep in in smaller chunks every time we speak with someone from your office.
Speaker 1:I'm just feel like I have to go visit because I really enjoy the legos.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was such a nice touch.
Speaker 3:It makes me want to have a set of legos here for me to play with yeah, yeah to get creative and promote thought I was actually thinking when I looked at my background in this meeting room, which is our, you know, yeah, lego creative room, I was just thinking having titanic over my head is probably you know, not maybe the best sign I hope we'll get through this without me saying something that later will be used against me or whatever will be happening here. But you know, yeah, we have whatever you could see. We even have, like let me see, yeah, the Eiffel.
Speaker 2:Tower is there and, by the way, now for people that haven't been here.
Speaker 3:I can see the lightning is a little bad, but you can see your A3M there and yes, and then, of course, you know all the different kinds of small Lego.
Speaker 2:It's amazing To go to Directions EMEA. I want to go to the Microsoft office.
Speaker 3:You should come, Brad and Christopher.
Speaker 2:I will put it on my list, we'd like to thank you for taking the time to speak with us this morning. We know that you have a busy schedule and time is extremely valuable, and there's several things that we wanted to talk about. You know, as far as the application roadmap, some growth opportunities as well as strategies. But before we get into that conversation, would you mind telling everyone who's listening, who may not know, which I don't know who? That would be a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 3:Sure, I can definitely do that. And no, I do not know. Thank you, everybody knows me, but you know. So that is always a good start. Who are we listening to here? So yeah, I mean the name is there, yannick Bowset, and all people always ask me so how do you pronounce that? And I would say it depends on where we are in the world. So you know, feel free, when you address me, to say it the way you say it in the world, because that's just how it is.
Speaker 3:So, what I've been, it's actually 31 years ago. I walked through the doors of what was called Navision actually in the old days. I mean that was, you know, we're basically the foundation for Business Central. So 31 years ago I started actually, and even you know some people here around they get a shock when I said I was doing development. They think did you really touch the code? Yes, I did. I started as a programmer for localization so had different countries where I did the you know, bat, sales tax, gst and so on, and did that for quite some years of the Windows version actually. And, yeah, been through all the time. I mean took actually also a job in Asia for some years running. The Malaysian office started in the Singapore office, then later set up and part of setting up the sales office there, so doing sales as well. And then I transitioned back to Denmark just after Microsoft bought Navision in 2002.
Speaker 3:And so that also means that what is it 22 years in Microsoft by now and what I do now just coming to that was long intro, by the way, but what I do now is I'm responsible for the team that defines what goes into the application. So that actually is called in Microsoft a product management team. So I am what we title-wise call a group product manager. So you know having this group of great product managers. So if we look at my team, I have one, you know. I have some persons responsible for finance. I have some for a supply chain, what we put into the supply chain area.
Speaker 3:Also people looking after what do we do with the, for example, the power platform, what integrations do we need to build? I have people also looking into what do we do with the other Dynamics 365 products, also looking into what do we do with the other Dynamics 365 products. I have also people looking after what do we do in terms of the localizations that are, you know, delivered by Microsoft. We have 21 country localizations, so we need to stay on top of what's actually changing in the world. And oh my, there's a lot of you know things changing in the world right now when we talk about requirements and so on.
Speaker 3:We could have a whole chapter on that. You should invite my guy that actually runs that, alexander Totowich, at some point. He could spend hours on telling you how the world is changing, getting more electronic, how it's being mandated from the different countries, different countries Anyway. So you could say, basically setting this strategy for what are we going to invest in product-wise over the coming years? And these days you probably guess what it is we are looking at, but that's co-pilot. That's where a lot of our investments go. So yeah, just finishing off, I've been here, I would say almost on all kinds of roles you could do in this business. I haven't run it yet, but that's all fine, I love what I'm doing. I love, you know, basically being part of defining what's going to happen in the future.
Speaker 1:That's my job, my team's job, that's amazing.
Speaker 2:That sounds like a lot and it is extremely important. I would say even more so, with it sounding about the responsibility that you have to enjoy what you do because of the time that you invest in it. So, as a group product manager that determines what goes into the product I'm assuming it's also defining the product roadmap and you had mentioned you have individual talented members of your team that assist with determining what goes into it. How do you determine what goes into the product roadmap? We had just spoken about how the world changes so rapidly. You mentioned with localizations.
Speaker 2:We were talking about news between conferences. I see the product roadmaps that you release at the conferences we're talking. You know the investments for right now it's 2024, wave 2, which is six months from now approximately. How do you determine what is going to be, what is going to be the focus or work done for the next six months, or the wave, in such a dynamic world?
Speaker 3:You know what I think, what I would love to answer here. I will answer it, but what I would love to is give you the link to the book, because it's actually a long answer and it's worth a book. So to say how we do that and there's probably plenty of product management books. But the reason why I say that is there are so many nuances to it. I mean, first of all, it starts with the customers customers already using the product, getting a lot of feedback from them. But I can't just say that's all we do, because it will be a really slim book.
Speaker 3:There's many ways how you talk to customers. Of course, we have the benefit of as you know, like yourself, you know the great network of partners that you know actually deliver business. So we also get a lot of input from the partners that have spoken to many customers, from the partners that have spoken to many customers. So that's, you know, you could say, one place of you know, a great source for this. But then, of course, there's the market trends. I mean no customer asked us or asked us, you know, for Copilot before Copilot was there, you know, or at least no customer asked us for AI before AI was there. So it's also about for any product manager, of course, you know, following the industry we talk a lot to also analysts that also look into the future. Microsoft internally have a great drive of coming up in different teams with new ideas Our research and department team not only ourselves in terms of R&D, but also in other groups. We also, of course, get feedback from there what's the trends, what's going on, what's being invested in, and we go and explore does that fit to an S&P market?
Speaker 3:Because that's, of course, what you have to remember. Business Central is focused on the S&P market, so not everything that necessarily happens, you know, day one in a large enterprise is applicable for S&P. However, over time we often see what you know enterprises would adopt also has a big influence. What's going to happen in the S&P space? Let me take one example. You know sustainability reporting. It's a mandate in many countries right now EU. You have to report. You know your emissions of, you know of gases and whatever, and those requirements are being put on the large companies. But they will ask their suppliers about some of these numbers. It's called scope three for those of you listening knowing that. And of course, suddenly you know an S&P will ask for those numbers. So, again, you know what I'm trying to say. Here is also market trends, and this is just an example of how we have to, you know, stay ahead and not just look at what's going on in our space but what's going on outside.
Speaker 3:Then we have, over time, instrumented a lot of great tools for feedback. I mean, first of all, everybody listening should remember this short URL, and now I can't, I should have, like you know, right in there, aka MS slash. I mean BC Ideas. All our short links start with AKA dot MS and then a slash, and this one would then be BC Ideas. The BC Ideas place is basically where anybody partners, customers, even prospects, could, you know, register, you know an idea for something we should change in the product?
Speaker 3:And the cool thing is, this is a community driven, so people vote for each other's ideas. And again you could say, if that was just it and we didn't have the other components, that will be easy to be a PM, because then we just look at these, you know ideas, and say which one is on the top, and then, and then an look at these, you know ideas, and say which one is on the top, and then an easy job done. You know here it is, but then you would miss out on what's the market trend, what other things should we invest in? But we take it seriously and we have reviews, always of the ones that come in and also the ones on the top. We don't go through those with many votes and basically have, you know, discussions about when is the right time to you know implement it in the product.
Speaker 3:And as I said, this is a book. You asked me, so this is a long answer. Then, another thing that also drives you know, what are we investing in? One thing is something being a top idea, but it's also about what we decided to, you know, open the hood on, so to say. Because when you have a product like Business Central that takes care of so many business processes and so on, we've seen that efficiency from a development perspective sometimes comes from when we open and look at a certain area, it tries to focus.
Speaker 3:Let's say, over the last couple of releases in finance, we focused on multi-company investments. So that means the engineering team are thinking about that, looking at what can we do to run, you know, in several countries and so on, and therefore we of course review, you know, ideas related to that versus you know, checking, maybe something for service order management. In the middle of it have to close down what we're doing, go and change gear and then do that. So what we invest in also depends on what we've said, you know, over X number of years.
Speaker 3:When is it we open the hood on, let's say, manufacturing those of you listening out here and saying I'm in the manufacturing industry that's something we have on the roadmap, on a future roadmap, right now, making sure it's great what we have. You know, if there's any bugs, whatever, we fix all that but an investment in could we do something a little bit better there? That's down the road, because right now in the top supply chain a lot of the focus is in the service and sales area and, again, copilot, of course, driving a lot of these investments and now I can take a breath a lot of these investments and now I can take a breath. That was a high-level answer to how we do that and I probably forgot some that's in the back of the book which, by the way, we're not writing a book but I'm thinking we should.
Speaker 2:That's incredible I understand Well it is a big challenge and I appreciate you saying that it's not long-winded at all, because I'm here to listen and learn from you and what you have to say about the product. I've been working with it for a long time. It's dear to me, and to be able to learn more about what happens behind the scenes versus on the front what I call user or partner facing is important. I do appreciate that strategy for your engineering team of focusing on an area, letting them get deeply involved in it and work on that functionality all at once while they're focused on it, because then they understand it, and to me it affords the opportunity for an engineer to submerge themselves in it and live it and understand it and not really have to remember.
Speaker 2:You know, like you said, the pick up and put down. Sometimes you forget where you left off and it could leave a gap in the product. So there are a number of ways. So it is not an easy task because the BC ideas is one avenue where someone can suggest topics. Then you also have the market trends that have to be analyzed, and then the user and partner feedback, which also have to be collected and analyzed, and then you sort of mix them up and mush them together on top of your internal initiatives. I don't envy you on that. I like the little graphics that you do with the roadmap, but having to do all the work to get there is significant, I see.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and maybe I say, you know, thinking about the chapter missing. There's, of course, also the things that we don't know, but it's still important in the sense of prospects Because, again, you know, here we are, we develop product. You develop the greatest product. But if a prospect walks up to it and wants to, you know, maybe try it. You know, test it. Whatever. As you know, we have the trials available.
Speaker 3:We have to think about that as well. How you know, how easy it is to approach. You know, I can make a feature and I can say, you guys, go out there, you know, tell it 10 times and then they will learn it. That doesn't really work in the SMB space. We have to try to at least make it, you know, as intuitive as possible. We have to try to at least make it as intuitive as possible.
Speaker 3:I'm sure you guys can tell me a few places where we didn't, but we're always trying to, again, listen and learn, but we try so that also, when prospects go to it, I mean one of the things right now which I, you know, let's say you could say that's not really for customers but our demonstration data, demo data as we call it. You know we invested heavily over the last couple of releases, but I'm still not satisfied with our level of, you know, transactional data there, because how do you demonstrate these new reports we just talked about if I don't have transactional data with dimensions, with locations, with other things? I want to look here you have you can see by location, and then there's one in the demo data. It doesn't work. But think about that investment here I am, you know, do I want to? You know, I need to show great new innovations, which we have, which we are doing, but at the same time, I have to think about also, you know, it can actually showcase all that great stuff. So, yeah, that's also what comes to mind.
Speaker 2:That is a key point. And one thing that I thought of before is we now have the open contribution pilot for Business Central, which Jesper is managing, which is wonderful. But you hit that is a wonderful avenue for the community, as I'll call it, to contribute to make the product better for us all. Rise and tides raise all ships, so if the product's doing well, all of us that work with it, including the customers and prospects, get the benefit of that. You hit on a key point with the transactional data and the demonstration data.
Speaker 2:Demonstrating or using the product can be a bit difficult because of that data. Oftentimes customers or prospects, partners, will tailor the demonstration with products that are similar to theirs. Has anyone considered doing a contribution pilot for data building, meaning if you could do like an open source Git where the community members can contribute? This is data that would be for a typical manufacturer, this would be for a service manager, this would be for a multi-company supply chain. That way we could all contribute, then pick the demo data that would execute, because obviously there's so many options and configurations, it's tough to throw everything in there, right, but if you start bringing in lot, number tracking, serial number tracking, putaways, picks, you talk about all that. So maybe there's a way we could, maybe using Copilot, set up a demonstration system with an open source contribution of data.
Speaker 1:That is how I struggle with because I do a lot of demo and so you know, trying to prepare all that and imagine if you have to do that multiple times different industries and unique scenarios and trying to put as much information in there just to get through like an hour's worth of data. But it would be really nice to be able to go oh, this is the prospect and they're in this industry, click on that and it'll just populate all the things I need to do a demo.
Speaker 3:Oh man, yes, A great idea. By the way, I would love. You know, this is exactly what we all would love, right, and what I'm saying here, it is a gap and how we get there. I do love, brad, also the idea of contribution. I am not sure we explored that enough and you know we can go now and talk to Jesper after this call.
Speaker 3:I think one of the things we want to, you know, always when we do things like this, we at least want to be able to describe foundational what we want, because you know again, data is great, but I also want, for example, you know, I want a company that at least shows some growth. I mean data that shows a company in distress and losing money. I mean you could say here I am, you know I got all this data, but when we then look at it, it's all you know, no profit and whatever, and that's. You could say that's, of course, a given, but that's not always a given, from what I've seen, you know in the past of some of these situations. And then you zoom in on a location and then it's just all messed up. Then you zoom in on a location and then it's just all messed up. So there are some rules and whatever we need to at least set the scene for so that I guess if you do manufacturing, it's not completely off from that service business, but not necessarily. You know, I'll think about that.
Speaker 3:I am not sure how much time we spent on, you know, really thinking about the contribution part here, and maybe for listeners, brad, because you brought it up that doesn't really know about this Maybe it's worth to say one minute what this whole GitHub contribution is. But I just want to say, and maybe that's also a part I would say, not forgot, but it almost feels like forgot again for the book, because that's in itself, you know, also a way to build the product and have a roadmap and we are seeing great contributions. So it's basically, as you know, the capability I'm talking not to you but to your listeners now but the capability for the community to say I want to fix this as the broker, we have open sourced our base code, but we haven't, you know, open gated it. I want to stress that every time we talk about open source, that you know there are some customer listening and saying, wow, everybody can just change the code and no, not everybody, and it is always gated by the same PM that would have told you know, development organization to actually develop it.
Speaker 3:And the community itself also reviews together and, you know, discuss whether a feature function makes sense. But end of the day, it's somebody here looking through it and say, approve, but, and in collaboration with those that are contributing. But we are seeing, you know, of course, you course, actually quite a lot coming in these days. I'm so thankful for those of you listening that actually do these contributions. We already got the crystals produced for the next event, so to hand out and saying contribution heroes. So those of you listening out there doing that, make sure to get one of those.
Speaker 2:That is again to take away from some of the topics I want to speak with you. It is a great way to contribute and help improve the product, because it may be easy to wish or say it doesn't do this or I wish it did this, but to have the opportunity to contribute to make it a better product is great. To contribute to make it a better product is great. And you did hit on a key point and that's where I'm happy that it's called the contribution pilot, because it's not open source, where it's controlled by the community. Everybody does it.
Speaker 2:It's members of the community have the application, has the transparency to see how it's written and what it's done, and it doesn't mean that I can go in and just change anything. It is still controlled from the Microsoft engineering team where they review properly the code that somebody contributes to see where it fits within the application, as well as the roadmap. So it's not an open source product which some may look at and I've seen some literature on where it's almost a negative. To me it's the opposite. In this case it's an extreme positive because there is a voice to be able to add improvements to the product versus somebody sitting, as they say, in the ivory tower. You will work with what we give you, which does make to me a better product, a much better product, and consistency is the key there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it definitely does. One of the ones I remember we got I think about 100 in the last release, and one of them is this currency on employee ledgers. We didn't have the capability of actually supporting currencies and we got that as a contribution. And it's one of these things that just makes so much sense and that somebody is saying you know, we have a lot of customers that work across borders and they need the expenses and whatever on the employees registered in different currencies. So now, that was a contribution, it was reviewed, makes sense. You know, it's something a lot of users are asking for. It's in there, so I can't remember who it was, but anyway, I want to say thank you to the partner, the person that did this.
Speaker 2:There's some great contributions. I watch them and see what goes in there because it gives me some insight to what's going on with the application as well. Just to step back for a moment on the application roadmap how far out do you plan the roadmap? I know that right now, within Directions Asia I saw the screenshot that was shared on Twitter and also by attending Directions North America, I saw the roadmap for 2024, wave 2, where the emphasis is how far out do you plan?
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I'll be careful, because when I say a certain year and so on, then the next question I'll get for somebody, can you share that with me? There's a difference between, let me just say that, from planning and then having something that we believe is the right thing to land and share in the community. And yeah, of course I could question on that. But the thing is we normally sit and plan what is it like? Five releases out. And now you say, wow, that's a lot, five releases in this, because in this world of agile you don't plan for. You know five releases out, but what the planning is, it's really, when you look at the last, it's the helicopter planning, meaning like really high level. So again, as we just talked about what the room of the you could say of the product are we going to invest in? You know this release, this release.
Speaker 3:So when I say planning and when I say five releases out, it is taking the different areas and see when do we believe this is the right time to invest in this or that area. It gets more and more blurry as we go up, but we put up. Let me say one thing that's also for sure when we do that, it changes and it changes Again. As I said, we had an announcement a month ago and now we have a different keynote. It's the same thing with the roadmap we do adjust to what's happening in the market. So it's like with Copilot there are areas that we thought we would do a little later on that we're now bringing up because we have high usage.
Speaker 3:Let's say, for example, in the you could say sales area documents and how you create those, how you create lines. You've seen some of the first investments we've done here with sales line creation and so on with Copilot, and of course that means that we're focusing on that area and the sales, how you actually go from, you know, create a product to get paid eventually, and that changes a little bit on our planning there. But we sit down, all the PMs, and discuss if we wanted to have a focus, you know, from a high-level point of view. And when I say two and a half, it's yeah, releases out, that means it's two and a half year, sorry, no. What am I saying? I say two and a half year, sorry, no. What am I saying? I say two and a half releases out, that's one and a half year, yes, because we have six months of release cycle.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, those changes come sometimes, yes, and I don't get it myself. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Because when we just have these keynotes and I have to tell everybody that we always say let's focus, let's do this, you know, let's really, you know, narrow in on this release, and I think we do, and I think we do a great job on it. But then, of course, you could say is it focused then to release about 60 new features, you know, in a release? But again, do remember, there are so many areas. There's something for finance, there's something for service, there's something for the you know our platform, there's something for the developers, there's something for the reporting strategy, and when you add that all up, then it becomes a lot, because we want to move on all these.
Speaker 3:We don't want to stand still with reporting and analytics. We don't want to stand still with report and analytics. We don't want to stand still in the finance area. So that's why you see these you could say also roadmaps with a lot of things on, but I think we're pretty controlled on that and good discussions and have a great process on this internally as well. For it, that's impressive, it's excellent.
Speaker 2:I think the products evolving well allows many businesses the opportunity for growth within the application as well. So as their business dynamic changes, a lot of that functionality within the application can grow with them. And, as you mentioned, the co-pilot I don't talk about co-pilot because everybody else talks about, I'm just kidding. It's uh, it's amazing thing. It's amazing. I had conversations this morning about just github co-pilot and how beneficial it is to the development life cycle of the extension, which is important, which which leads us to something else that we were talking about is also some growth opportunities as far as there is with business central. Could we dive into that a little bit, pick up where we talked before?
Speaker 3:Yes, for sure, I mean it's. It's a very interesting, you know, like questions and so what are the growth opportunities? And you're right, I could, you know I could default and roll to begin with. You know go pilot, you know lead with that, you know land that match. And, as I'm saying, you know it's a growth opportunity in the sense of reeling in the customer or the prospect as well. And I think you know you in the customer or the prospect as well. And I think you know you saw our keynotes.
Speaker 3:But you will notice there, compared to the past where the keynotes we just did, it was a lot of, you know, business, central business central focus, maybe a little bit on the products we integrate with. But if you notice this time, well, we were leading a lot with the M365 products because Co-Pilot is a little different, you know, this time than it's been. You know when M365 products has released something you actually need to buy the access to. You know to see and explore. You know this co-pilot and whether it's Word and Excel and so on. So we wanted to land the message of how important it is. Also partners use that every day because if partners use that, they're also able to, you know, talk to the prospects about the importance of this. And if you just start with the M365, maybe with Business Central data, as you may be seeing, we showed one of these presentations where we had 100,000 rows from Business Central into Excel. So now we're not, you know, we're using the capabilities where you work seamlessly with Excel, but now, using Copilot, I could easily find outliers in these 100,000 rows.
Speaker 3:So the opportunity here that we have to think about is really opening the door. Opening the door there are still, you know some I'm not saying but some people that will have experienced, you know, gpt as you know something where you ask a funny question and get a funny answer and haven't really seen the benefit necessarily of using it inside a company on the company data and do remember when you're doing that on the company data that's not shared outside the organization but Copilot is then learning on the you could say, the common knowledge in the business. So that's a huge opportunity in itself just to land that message, get people to talk about. You know, understand, you know if you choose the Microsoft stack that not only in M36, you get the benefit but later you also get it in Business Central. So I think that opportunity is really, you could say, the existing market you are going after. You can now have a, I would say, a faster door opener, hopefully also faster sales closer. You know when you talk about Goal About it, but of course it's not only about that. It's also maybe looking at some of the other things that we have, you know, released recently and one of the you know the opportunities that I do believe that is out there and still a little bit untapped. But it also requires you as a partner to maybe go into a new territory and that's really the Shopify integration we did some releases ago and we keep improving.
Speaker 3:And from the numbers, we know that there is about 2.8 million. Let's take the US market, for example. There's 2.8 million shops running Shopify. They're actually active. We're not talking about people that bought it and don't use it. Of course you can start to say, okay, there's many, small, there's many. The funny thing is a lot of these has grown In the US. We know Shopify takes care of about 10% of all commerce transactions there.
Speaker 3:So that opportunity you know going to first I would actually a business central partner start by going to the Shopify customers already using Shopify, because one of their, you could say problems as they have grown is really having a tight integration to the back office, and that's what business central offers with Shopify. So I heard from some partners that have been doing this. So I heard from some partners that have been doing this. They say that the number one value prop is actually the setup of having Shopify integrate to Business Central. It's a funny value prop in itself because often it's about, you know, I wouldn't, of course, forget the control of your finances, control of your inventory or regulatory reporting. That's what you, of course, you course, have to mention as the door opener. But then when you then talk to them about did you know that I can link these two products together in like five minutes, then they are all just surprised by that, and that's often actually what gets to the next conversation.
Speaker 3:We've had partners that did some call-downs like this, took the list, found out who was using Shopify and did in four months, 55 customers, new customers. So going after that opportunity that is out there, it's a world we don't see because we are in the business central world and we know our industry, we know our customers, but there's also a world out there of a lot of Shopify's that I would actually say it this way. We need to do them a favor. They need to be integrated to business central. That's how I see it. Because they are growing, they need to be in control of these things I just mentioned. So they are growing, they need to be in control of of these things I just mentioned. So that's one opportunity I would, you know, yeah, suggest for some people at least not everybody, but some people to look into that's a good way.
Speaker 2:There are a lot of opportunities. The co-pilot that you had mentioned and I'm happy that you had mentioned it that's in conversation. Co-pilot is everywhere and I think a lot may not fully understand what it is, how it works, it's. It's almost like it's a buzzword of the day and you could almost say co-pilot and it will show up and people will stand in line to talk with you. But with co-pilot and data and I'm happy that you had mentioned that the co-pilot is only analyzing your data- your tenant it's not taking your data and your tenant it's not taking your data and your tenant it's not taking your data and sharing it.
Speaker 2:Another question or conversation that I've had, which, again now that it's becoming more popular, users and partners, prospects and customers are having the same types of conversations or there's more conversation about it. So we just identified that it's tenant-only data, which is wonderful, because you don't want your information potentially shared or have somebody get into it. What about within the application? Not to talk about the growth strategies, but it's just a question and it comes from a conversation I had last week what about user permission with that data? Does co-pilot honor the user's permission at this point or is that? And if it's out of the scope of this conversation, we can continue with the growth strategies, but it's something that came up, uh. So often.
Speaker 3:No, that's a super valid, you know question. I think you know what you. Often, when we do this, you know the demonstration and we show the product. What people do not see is all the effort and time we spent which we rightfully spent actually making sure you know it is secure, that privacy is respected, that you know permissions are expected, that no user can you know see data, that they should not have access to that no user I mean so it respects. You know that's the fundament of, fundamentally, you know the requirement for anything we ship. You know, and I would actually say we spend more time on that than you know you could say the business process part of it and optimizing that on that than you know you could say the the business process part of it and optimizing that.
Speaker 3:Because, as you know, microsoft, as we say is, is built on trust. People have to trust microsoft. We cannot, we cannot have any crack in this and we don't because there are so many processes and checkpoints and I you know that we do to make sure that we deliver something that is just respecting security, privacy and any risk out there. So, yeah, that's a super valid question and I think that's part of the adoption here, as you're saying and I do get why people are asking that question People are, of course, afraid of whether your data is shared. I mean, what if you're writing a secret project name and the competitor could do that? That's not going to happen. It is so important that you can trust you know your company co-pilot to only use that data and that's, yeah what we spend.
Speaker 2:I'm happy to hear the official answer that it respects the individual, not only your tenant boundaries, but also the user's boundaries and what they have access to in the system. It's important for the adoption of it to understand that which is great, and then also the growth strategies or the growth opportunities.
Speaker 2:I think there are many opportunities with the application and you had mentioned also looking at. I like the strategy of looking at and you had mentioned Shopify or even other customers work with people who have an existing need and then they can get the Shopify integration in the Business Central ERP SMB software as part of that whole process.
Speaker 2:It's a good way to adopt and then, with that, also the integration to the whole M365 stack with Teams, integration with the ability to use Power Platform, power Automate. See, this is where I'm happy that I'm getting to the end of my life, because there's just so much where I'm happy that I'm getting to the end of my life, because there is just so much.
Speaker 3:No, you and sometimes we have these, you know, missed opportunities because you could say we spent a couple of releases communicating it and then it's buried under you know whatever material and nothing. But you mentioned Teams. We're the only product where you can actually if again respecting user permissions and everything you can read data in Business Central for free for a user that is licensed for Teams. If the user is licensed for Teams and in the same environment as Business Central is installed, then they can read data, again respecting permission sets and everything. But often you would have to pay for that. Not often you have to pay for that in other ERP products there is no free, and not only that, there are a few actions you can also perform through that free access. There you can get a business central client open from if you are within Teams and do not have a business central license. If you have the permission, you get that Again.
Speaker 3:What a great opportunity to talk to people about when you sometimes get into licensing and licensing thing. Talk about the things that we can offer that nobody else offers out there, because maybe the company has a lot of users that could benefit at least from you know, discussing the data. Not working with the data, but discussing it. See an item card in the full size and the information there. That's so. Yeah, you know there's so many and you said M360. There's, of course, also the recent D365 field service opportunity. Now you know, as you know, we announced that in this release.
Speaker 3:Yeah, integration so yeah, and the opportunity there is really about. You know a whole, you could say, market out there of frontline workers that needs to be digitalized because a lot of frontline workers out there may be doing the service checking something off. They've been used to do that on pen and paper or you know some app that wasn't really integrated and so on. That's what we have now with the field service integration, because they deliver that great frontline experience, even also with Copilot, you can speak to the phone, you can get a summary with Copilot of the work order. Speak to the phone, you can get a summary with Copa Live Pilot of the work order. And then, by integrating to Business Central, field service has the you know, inventory on stock. It has, you know, direct invoice control and so on. So again, another great opportunity there.
Speaker 1:Just to go back on that, m365 and Teams. You know I did a session in Dynamics User Group regarding working together with Business Central teams and Outlook and sometimes when you do those presentations or sessions, I have to tell myself that not everyone knows it. So I did a quick survey during the session and I asked you know, do everyone use Teams here? Everyone raised their hands right by 99.99% and I made an assumption that people are already doing it. You know BC and Teams and when I asked the question and they all said no, I didn't know you could do that. So I went through my whole session and it was very surprising that there's still a lot of customers that don't even realize that's capable of how you can work all together in a single application, minimizing, app switching.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's amazing.
Speaker 2:Yes, that is a challenge. I think it's a challenge. I don't want to go down the whole documentation road because I think we'll just step into a black box the documentation and partner and customer awareness, partner, customer prospect awareness in the documentation. We could have several volumes of books to talk about that. Yeah, to talk about that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think there, you know, I see a little bit of light in the end of the tunnel and I don't think it's a train coming towards me. But you know, real revelation there. And one of the things again, and, believe it or not, I'm going to say Copilot. But you know, when I see some of the results. Now we have, with you know on a tooltip. Now, now we have with you know on a tooltip. Now it's called Ask Copilot, it's not called Learn More, which was actually, you know, the same as Confuse Me More, because that was what you got.
Speaker 3:As I said, I got confused every time I clicked Learn More and there was actually a technical reason for it. The reason was that we did, in most cases, send people to page help and not to field help, because we didn't have necessarily that specific field explained. Or if we did, we still sent them to page help. But if you're sitting with a field and you want to learn more, then it doesn't make sense that if it's learn more on customer credit limit, and then you land on a page saying this is how you create a customer. That has changed now with Ask Copilot, because it goes through and finds that specific area If you want to learn about costing method, we have a fantastic article that, even with graphics, show what's the difference between FIFO and LIFO. And all that Funny thing is people didn't find it with Learn More because they landed on inventory page. Now they actually get it. If you try this out, go to costing methods, ask how valid Comes up with a nice description of what the field is, and you can click a direct link and get this beautiful documentation on this. So I see you know actually a lot of yeah, you could say improvements in that area going forward and hopefully you know that is the way that you know documentation will consume, because, yes, it is difficult to come up with a genius way of structuring this, finding the right way to searching it, finding the right result.
Speaker 3:But that's where Copilot kicks in, and I'm really you know now. I even said to one of my PMs this day I would have loved to see what's actually the attraction of new users and ask Copilot versus, you know, learn more. In the past I would have expected if you tried to learn more twice, you'd never use it again because you were so confused that you'd never go back twice. You never use it again because you are so confused that you never go back. So I think now with new users we would see that monthly active tenants of that and I can tell you right now the number is. We cannot share numbers, but it's really surprising how much is used these days because people found out finally I can get help to my problems.
Speaker 2:You can put me in that bucket of using.
Speaker 1:Learn more twice and never going back.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:Because not to make a joke or to be cool, but I called it the learn less button because I was more confused.
Speaker 1:Yes, it was learn less because I was more confused after I was there.
Speaker 2:I almost sometimes forgot One time I forgot, I think, what I was looking for. But I do, I almost sometimes forgot. One time I forgot, I think, what I was looking for. But I do like the ask co-pilot. Um, I see I could go.
Speaker 2:I try not to go too far down these holes. But ask co-pilot, is it on the roadmap? See, now I'm going to put you there so that you could put your own information in there. So now we have the Ask Copilot, which Microsoft Learn is another area that the community can contribute to. I know there's a big push with Kenny and another group of individuals to continually add information, to learn as well, as the community members have been adding information, even correcting small things, which is again another way that it makes it better, and it's my understanding please correct me if I'm wrong that Ask Copilot uses Learn as a primary data source to come up with the information. Now, within an organization, there's a lot of options, a lot of ways to set things up. What is the plan, if there is a plan, for me to be able to put my own information in so that if my employees or co-workers are looking for assistance on how to enter a sales order. I can give them specific information how I want it done within my organization.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so let's start again. As you also know, again, I can't even, didn't it say now, I should remind you, you saw the roadmap as well. I can't remember if we put, but, but let's just start with the. You know the, the fundamental, you know you could say strategy of of business central. As you know, we, we, we, we have a great product because we have great partners, we have great ISVs. I mean, yes, we do develop a great product, but fundamentally we make sure that whatever we do in Business Central, you can extend that, Sure, there's an area here or there or whatever, but we're always looking into how can partners add their IP on top.
Speaker 3:It doesn't make sense if we didn't do that, because we will never be able to deliver that fish farm solution or winery solution or car manufacturer retail solution. I mean we would not. That's just so many industries, so many verticals. So if we now have Copilot that has to help and tell how to do things, again it doesn't make sense for us if we only say no, it can only be done on top of our documentation Because, as you know, our documentation is the foundation for all these solutions and verticals people build on top. So of course we are looking into this and, yeah, I can't even remember if we said it. I'm almost about to open the roadmap to just I have the roadmap.
Speaker 2:I did open the roadmap. I don't want you to say anything. I don't want to put you in a position to say anything.
Speaker 3:So you knew it was there. Great, no, no, no, I just pulled it up as we spoke.
Speaker 1:And from the generative AI.
Speaker 2:This is from the slide that was presented at Directions Asia that I'm reading. Generative AI is to create orders from chat page summarization, payment reconciliation, e-document, more matching, drag and drop on prompt dialogue, late payment prediction new model that was out before Third party knowledge basis there you go More languages. So, again so this is the slide from Directions Asia that was shared for 2024 release wave. Two investment areas, so I'm assuming third party knowledge basis would be where I could have the opportunity to put my own information.
Speaker 2:See right there now, now this whole conversation yeah, I, I should have just remembered again.
Speaker 3:There's so much information, I forgot I should as well, because I was part of making that column. So you know it's like and I and of course know that we can discuss in ups and downs and whatever, but it's always. The subtleness here is in what did we communicate externally? And the roadmap we show at these events are actually just hitting the street some months before we actually do the you could say the official finalized release plan. So things can change a little bit. And also, even with the release plan, that's of course, always the disclaimer. So that's why you know there's more concrete around it. When we get to, is it june or july? I think you know the, the next wave roadmap gets out on the street.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm excited. It seems like there is really full steam behind this. Co-pilot I'm. I say this every episode and with every conversation. I'm waiting that I can open up business central for a new customer and say, set up a base system for a manufacturer of light bulbs, and it will fill up. All the number, series will fill, a chart of accounts will fill up, you know customer templates.
Speaker 2:It will fill up a number. It's a long way from there, but even if you did it with a number of sections, you know, and I've previewed some partners creating some tools such as this. Where it's, it's nice to just say you know, create something, yeah, and it will go ahead and fill in all the information for you, as well as the opportunity to analyze data. Now, I'm excited that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, like that, something's so small. Yeah, yes, just one line there. I would like that in ideas and then it it's the top, then I have to deliver, that's amazing Makes sense.
Speaker 2:No, I'm excited. There's a lot of features. Now you have me down the rabbit hole of the roadmap.
Speaker 3:Maybe you will contribute it after this call. That will be all great, we'll look at it. I have done.
Speaker 2:I have made a few or a couple of small contributions to the pilot. I will do more. Unfortunately, this first quarter of the year many of us will call, you know, conference season or other types. It just gets difficult with time, with life and work. But I want to get back into it now that things are leveling out. For now, because I enjoy adding it For now. It seems like every day I think it levels out, and then those hills come back for us, which is good.
Speaker 2:It's in a positive manner. So, Noah, we appreciate your discussion on the application roadmap, as well as some growth opportunities. Are there any other strategies that you share that come to mind that you would like to relate to either partners, customers or prospects, as far as product adoption, product use and how to ensure you get the most out of the product?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I could start again going off in different directions. I mentioned one of these AKAs before, bc Ideas. There's the other one that when you forget them all there's always and we should actually have that. I should even have that on my back here, you know, like backstrop and say have somebody make a Lego of it?
Speaker 3:Yes, Actually, yes, you do that, but that is, of course, the BC All page akams. That's where we try and I have to say there is so much information, but we try to always put there the top links to, you know, the both opportunities, but also what's hot off the press, uh, in terms of where you could go and learn more and it could be, um, you know now I don't want to compete with your, your podcast here, but there's, of course, also our youtube channel, you know, like you know, but again, what is, how do I find that? And whatever bc all will then have a link to that, they will be in the top right now on that page, because that's hot off the press, that we finally got to youtube no, that's great and we don't look at.
Speaker 2:You can talk about that. We did speak with vincent about uh, you know, bc under the hood. Yeah, I also promote the the business central launch event where there's a lot of good information. We do this for the community. We want to share information, get to know members of the community, so anything that can help a prospect, customer, partner or anyone I guess that covers everybody customer, prospect, partner or Microsoft employee get more out of the application. We want to share that information because that's why we do what we do with this podcast.
Speaker 3:Good, good, and that's where you mentioned, I mean, because if you go to the YouTube channel, as you say, there you will have the launch event as well in these nights bits of you know the different areas and I think that's a great way to, of course, consume in some videos there. We of course, course, discussing could we make them even smaller, even shorter, even more focused, because there is a lot of content. I think if you, if anything, now going to bc, all again, there's a lot of information, but of course, the release plans, I mean bc release plan, uh, that's that's where we always, we always change that akamsbcreleaseplan to the latest and even going to these events, I do get quite a few questions about features we have released and where it very specifically says in the release plan that we've done it and I'm like, I totally respect. I also don't read all kind of documentation comes out from all the products. But I think working with Business Central read all kind of documentation comes out from all the products, but I think, you know, working with Business Central, it's a good investment. Just, you know, sit down and then read about what's really, you know, coming in this release and what's the story, what's the screenshot. You won't need everything, but it will prep you, as oh, didn't I read about this? And then you know you can always go back. So I think that's where it starts and then, yeah, that's my recommendation Always be on top of the release plan.
Speaker 3:Like you know, I got a question and I do think because we have so much there was this partner asking do you actually now allow, if you have a premium user to log into an Essentials environment? Because we had this rule about if you have them in the same environment, you could do that. There was one line on our keynote somewhere, but it is in the release plan very well explained that you now can do that if you have, within the same environment, license both premium and Essentials users. So that's explained. We we didn't do that in the past due to some risk of you know, doing something with premium that essentials couldn't do, but it is explained in. These subtle things are important because else we would have a partner that hadn't seen that say no, you cannot, we have to have to do this completely in a different way. So just sell premium users to all of them.
Speaker 2:It is important to stay up to date as a partner with all that information, because the information is available for everybody, so you want to make sure that you're relaying truthful information. If somebody were to search themselves for it, you were laying truthful information if somebody were to search themselves for it. Yeah, I do need to find who does the licensing, because I think we could have a 4 000 hour podcast on microsoft licensing and, you know, a deep dive under the hood of which license do you sell for?
Speaker 1:scenario can you just ask co-pilot, I'm sure hopefully one day we will be easier.
Speaker 2:I have a customer that wants to use power automate to do this, and then they have to use, you know, an e-commerce site that goes to the api but they're only reading data. Which license do they need? But now, if they want to write data, what do they do? See, this is what we know. It's, it's, it's going on. No, it's it's important to keep up with the information.
Speaker 3:Yes, it is. And now you say that. I just want to say that now I didn't bring my power to this meeting, but I got 28 minutes left here and I guess we are almost to the end, but I don't want to just cut off, so just, so you know, no, it's okay, it's okay.
Speaker 2:We do appreciate you taking the time to speak with us. Again, time is valuable. Time is the currency of life. Once you spend it, you can't get it back. So anyone who takes the opportunity to speak with us, we are more appreciative than we can relay. And again we would like to thank you for all that you do for the Business Central community, all of the information you put out and we see more with these conversations the true passion and transparency from everybody in the Business Central team. On the Business Central team, whether it's the project managers right down to the engineers, are really doing their best to make it a better product for everybody and have transparency so that we all know what is coming with the product, what's happening with the product positive and if there are any issues, which is helpful With that. If anybody would like to have additional conversations or questions for you, how would someone get in contact with you?
Speaker 3:So this is. You know, I'm always open about also email address and other things, because every time I share it I think, oh, now I'm going to be flooded. But I'm actually, you know, open to anybody. Of course there's ideas, you can always go there. But if there is a specific thing that somebody you know listened to this and I said something that is completely opposite of where they think it should be done, or whatever, then you know, write to my email address and I assume that you know in the recording you can see my name there, I mean J-A-N-N-I-K. It's you know. And then just with a, b and then at Microsoftcom, so YannickB at Microsoftcom. That's where people can write.
Speaker 3:You know, I always like to make friends with partners, with whoever. If there is a customer out there that would listen to it, you know, feel free to write. If there's something we could do differently, if there's something we should improve, whatever. And I also just want to say thank you to you guys, brian and Christopher here, for actually inviting me. Thank you to you guys, brian and Christopher here, for actually inviting me. I love to have these chats and we all talk to each other offline, but do let me know if you want other guests here. You know I can help you again, also with my team, because you know this is a nice you know, conversation and casual, and I like that. And great questions, by the way, conversation and casual, and I like that. And great christians, by the way, um, uh, so let's see if my inbox is now flooded because there's something I shouldn't have said.
Speaker 2:You never know. You never know. I don't think you said anything that you shouldn't have said and, um, I will speak with you after about another initiative I have as far as talking with individuals of the team that I have to follow up with some members there.
Speaker 1:But again, thank you for your time.
Speaker 2:We appreciate it and I hope you enjoy the rest of your day. Ciao, ciao.
Speaker 3:The same to you. Thank you very much.
Speaker 2:Thank you, chris, for your time for another episode of In the Dynamics Corner Chair, and thank you to our guests for participating.
Speaker 1:Thank you, brad, for your time. It is a wonderful episode of Dynamics Corner Chair. I would also like to thank our guests for joining us. Thank you for all of our listeners tuning in as well. You can find Brad at developerlifecom, that is D-V-L-P-R-L-I-F-E dot com, and you can interact with them via Twitter, dprlife. You can also find me at matalinoio, m-a-t-a-l-i-n-o dot i-o, and my Twitter handle is matalino16. And see, you can see those links down below in their show notes. Again, thank you everyone. Thank you and take care.
